Author Topic: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area  (Read 611 times)

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travel9

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NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« on: September 01, 2024, 11:57:12 am »
Hi All,

Was driving on A5 in Milton Keynes (Bletchley) in my Citroen e-berlingo, passenger version, 23 year.
It's 70mph area there, no road works.

I suspect they misidentified my car as a van which would have 60mph limit.

On its V5C my car has:
D.5 body type : MPV
Taxation class : Electric
J: Vehicle category : M1


They also didn't provide any specific location on the NOIP, just "A5 (Bletchley)" which is a bit too loose definition.


What should I do? Even if I appeal I still technically was overspeeding, so if they admit officer's mistake I'm still guilty - so I assume the court won't upheld my appeal?


Also, on the fun side - as per police official document pack they sent to me - I do not qualify for the speed awareness course as the speeding threshold for it - 76 to 84mph inclusive. But I was going "just" 71...



For some reasons can not upload the screenshot, here's the text :

Dear Sir/Madam

 In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, I hereby give notice that it is intended to take proceedings against the driver of
motor vehicle PK23XRS
for the alleged offence of Speeding - exceed limit for type of vehicle (not goods/ passenger) vehicle - manned equipment

Recorded Speed 71 MPH on 21/08/2024 at 10:59
 at (place) A5 Bletchley


contrary to Section 86(1) and 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

This allegation WILL be supported by photographic evidence at any subsequent court hearing
« Last Edit: September 01, 2024, 12:01:07 pm by travel9 »

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mickR

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2024, 06:30:18 pm »
edit miss read post.

so if the V5 states the vehicle is M1 then it's classified as a Car.
I would suggest a phone call to plod pointing out their error and asking them to check the  vehicle details.
On vorrecting their mistske, if you were clocked at 71mph I would think it extremely unlikely you will be prosecuted on the basis you were still speeding as it would be well within the threshold and I suggest  not in the public interest
see what others say.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2024, 06:43:53 pm by mickR »
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travel9

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2024, 06:39:56 pm »
what does the V5 say about vehicle class?
not taxation class.

J: Vehicle category : M1

mickR

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2024, 06:44:27 pm »
sorry missed that on your OP.

andy_foster

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2024, 07:03:24 pm »
What should I do? Even if I appeal I still technically was overspeeding, so if they admit officer's mistake I'm still guilty - so I assume the court won't upheld my appeal?

You could try making up words, such as "overspeeding", but that won't help much.
In court, it could perhaps be argued that the level of the amount of alleged morespeederering is within the stated tolerance of the approved device and therefore the court is not entitled to be certain beyond any reasonable doubt that you were actually exceeding the speed limit. Or you could speak calmly to the police, explain the issue and hopefully avoid the matter getting to court - but where's the fun in that?

Quote
Also, on the fun side - as per police official document pack they sent to me - I do not qualify for the speed awareness course as the speeding threshold for it - 76 to 84mph inclusive. But I was going "just" 71...

Utter hogwash. The guidance for speed awareness courses is 10% +2mph - 10% +9mph over the applicable limit. The numbers quoted do not match any recognised limit, let alone the unspecified one in your NIP. It is possible that the CTO plucked those numbers out of the air (or even deviated from the guidelines), but as a general rule, the sausage machine does not do that.

Are the numbers quoted, the range that the notice explicitly states are applicable to your [alleged] offence, are they numbers quoted as being applicable to a speed limit within a table, which you selected despite there being no speed limit specified in your NIP, and a presumption that a 70mph actually applied but the NIP being issued on a flawed belief that a 60mph limit applied, or have you worked them out yourself?

[quote
For some reasons can not upload the screenshot, here's the text :[/quote]

Usually due to not reading the "READ THIS FIRST" post, and in particular that part that advises that you use a third party hosting site.

Quote
In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, I hereby give notice that it is intended to take proceedings against the driver of
motor vehicle PK23XRS
for the alleged offence of Speeding - exceed limit for type of vehicle (not goods/ passenger) vehicle - manned equipment

Recorded Speed 71 MPH on 21/08/2024 at 10:59
 at (place) A5 Bletchley


contrary to Section 86(1) and 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

The NIP states that the [alleged] offence is exceeding the speed limit for the class of vehicle. It goes on to state "not goods/passenger" - which are to all intents and purposes the categories of vehicle class speed limits, but nobody ever accused the police of being literate.

S. 86 RTRA 1984 concerns speed limits for the class of vehicle (as opposed to overarching speed limits - which apply to cars and other vehicles which do not have specific class limits).

TL;DR - you can post a semi-literate whinge about how absurd it is, or you can have a polite word with the police and hopefully get it dropped.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2024, 07:07:55 pm by andy_foster »
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

travel9

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2024, 07:34:10 pm »
TL;DR - you can post a semi-literate whinge about how absurd it is, or you can have a polite word with the police and hopefully get it dropped.

Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate the time you took to address the points I raised.

While I understand that certain aspects of my post may not have been articulated perfectly, I was simply trying to convey my concerns in a forum where I believed I could seek constructive advice. We're all here to learn and support each other, after all.

Please note that I'm not a native English speaker, so I might make some language mistakes. I acknowledge that "overspeeding" might not be a conventional term, but the intention was to describe the situation as clearly as possible. I appreciate your clarification on the speed awareness course criteria, though I still believe the specific information provided by the police in my case warrants some consideration, especially since there seems to be some ambiguity.

While I respect your expertise, I have to say that the tone of your response felt a bit condescending. I’m here to learn and seek help from more experienced members, and a more respectful approach would be appreciated. Finally, I was hoping for some guidance on how best to approach this situation, given the potential misidentification of my vehicle and the vague location details in the NIP. If you or anyone else has practical advice on how to proceed, particularly with contacting the police, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks again for your input.
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The Rookie

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2024, 07:36:43 pm »

You could try making up words, such as "overspeeding".
In certain communities, mostly those originating from the sub continent and surrounding regions, overspeeding is the standard/expected/normal word used for what you probably consider speeding. (Speeding is used to describe any vehicle travelling at some speed).
Example https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/144-killed-over-7-months-in-accidents-across-us-nagar/articleshow/112971718.cms
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

travel9

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2024, 07:42:38 pm »
FWIW Oxford English Dictionary knows about "overspeeding"
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baroudeur

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2024, 11:27:35 am »
Hi All,

Was driving on A5 in Milton Keynes (Bletchley) in my Citroen e-berlingo, passenger version, 23 year.
It's 70mph area there, no road works.

I suspect they misidentified my car as a van which would have 60mph limit.

On its V5C my car has:
D.5 body type : MPV
Taxation class : Electric
J: Vehicle category : M1


They also didn't provide any specific location on the NOIP, just "A5 (Bletchley)" which is a bit too loose definition.


It's quite specific in that it's dual carriageway in both directions for 4 km in Bletchley.  There are two overbridges which are the usual sites for manned speed cameras.

BTW your written English is excellent and much better that some native speakers.

RichardW

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2024, 01:57:57 pm »
If you speak to the Police and they agree to drop, make sure you get it in writing.  If you have heard nothing close to the 28 days, reply to the S172 naming the driver, but with a covering letter explaining the situation - last thing you want is to get a prosecution for failing to name the driver in a case which didn't really exist!

travel9

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Re: NOIP : 71mph in 70mph area
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2024, 11:07:50 pm »
Thanks everyone,

I have spoken with the Fixen Penalty Support Unit, they confirmed they categorised my van as a commercial one, so as soon as I send them a copy of the v5c (with a cover letter) the case will be dropped.
(But I wonder why their system doesn't do this kind of check automatically though)

They also said I don't need to fill in the driver's details form but I did just in case  :)

So fingers crossed everything will be ok.

But.. it makes me think it's not the last time I'm sending a copy of the V5C to the police...
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