3. NIP returned by Post office
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GCM

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NIP returned by Post office
« on: September 22, 2024, 09:28:29 pm »
Hello,

I recently received a NIP for doing 58 in a 50. The offense was on 1/07 and the letter was dated 03/07. Unfortunately the NIP came after I was on holiday (05/07 to 21/07). I sent the NIP on 22/07 with my details as the driver at that time.

I didn't hear anything until 20/09 when I received an envelope from Royal Mail with the NIP and envelope I had enclosed it in stating that it has been returned because I had used an old stamp. I have attached the envelope image here for reference - https://ibb.co/3WB87g2

Obviously the 28 day limit has exceeded. What are my next steps? The returned envelope shows a stamp dated 24/07 which proves I sent the NIP in time. Who should I talk to?

Thank you for your assistance.
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Southpaw82

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2024, 09:55:02 pm »
Who do you think you should talk to?

You were served with a s 172 notice to name the driver. You haven’t done so. You’re turning a course into six points.
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GCM

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2024, 10:08:28 pm »
My first thought was to contact Essex Police via email or the telephone on the NIP and try to explain that the NIP was returned. Is that the best course of action?
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andy_foster

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2024, 10:10:16 pm »
Yes. Phone.
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Southpaw82

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2024, 10:12:56 pm »
At the moment, you’ve not complied with the s 172 notice. You’re almost two months out of time to do so. You could do nothing and wait to get prosecuted for the s 172 offence or you could do everything you can to provide your details, albeit late, to try to get a course (if eligible) or a fixed penalty (if not). Phoning the police and explaining what you’re doing might be a good idea.
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andy_foster

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2024, 10:32:52 pm »
Technically, if it was not reasonably practicable to provide the information within the 28 days, it is a defence to do so as soon as is reasonably practicable afterwards.

To some people it was common knowledge that the post office reneged on non-barcoded stamps. The first I heard of it when the first time I saw a case of an s. 172 response not being delivered because the post office refused to honour a stamp bought legally and used in good faith (not that I have an opinion on the post office's action).

If the police will accept a late nomination it won't be an issue. If they will still offer a course, even better,

Personally, I would be minded to try to speak to the police (Fixed Penalty Support Unit/Central Ticket Office/whatever) before re-sending the response. If they are being helpful, they would usually put a note on the file, but they might suggest sending a note with the response. If you are having massive difficulty in speaking to someone, I would not delay re-sending unduly though.
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GCM

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2024, 10:48:30 pm »
Thank you so much for the advise. I will call them first thing tomorrow. I will update you of the outcome.
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GCM

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2024, 07:11:04 pm »
UPDATE: I called the police and they have asked me to resend the NIP, saying I still have time?! Not sure what they meant but its a common thing that they are coming up with recently.

The person I talked to said the delay will not affect the outcome!

Keep you posted.
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andy_foster

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2024, 07:28:32 pm »
2 issues -
whilst the legal requirement is to provide the information within 27 days (28 day beginning with...), subject to the statutory defence, they police are often happy to accept a late response if the case isn't close to timing out (6 months from offence) and if the respondent is admitting to being the driver, and
courses are generally only offered if the response admitting to being the driver is received/processed within 3 months of the offence and requiring that the course be completed within 4 months.

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ManxTom

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2024, 02:00:40 pm »
@GCM  -  if you haven't already sent it it might be a good idea to attach a letter explaining that you spoke to [name of person] at [hh:mm] on [dd/mm/yyyy] and that they told you to return the NIP late and that they had said this was OK.

Keep copies and - if possible - get proof of posting from a Post Office counter
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GCM

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2024, 11:00:06 pm »
I did just that but sent an email instead with the form attached. I have received confirmation today that they have received the form and it has been actioned.
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JRHartley

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2024, 08:29:14 am »
Quote from: GCM on September 24, 2024, 11:00:06 pm
I did just that but sent an email instead with the form attached. I have received confirmation today that they have received the form and it has been actioned.

I would also physically send the signed form.

More knowledgeable members will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an emailed copy of the form would be admissible as evidence of you being the driver. 
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Southpaw82

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2024, 01:45:49 pm »
Quote from: JRHartley on September 25, 2024, 08:29:14 am
More knowledgeable members will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an emailed copy of the form would be admissible as evidence of you being the driver.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be admissible, just like any other attachment to an email.
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mdann52

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2024, 08:22:55 pm »
The police could decline to accept it, as legally there's no presumption of service if sent by email

If police have acknowledged receipt, that becomes a non-issue
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Southpaw82

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Re: NIP returned by Post office
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2024, 09:11:51 pm »
Quote from: mdann52 on September 25, 2024, 08:22:55 pm
The police could decline to accept it, as legally there's no presumption of service if sent by email

That’s a non-sequitur. Whether the police accept it or not is nothing to do with whether there is a presumption of service (and in any case I think the Criminal Procedure Rules do provide for a presumption of service by email, or at least a means of proving service by certificate).

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