Author Topic: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty  (Read 1359 times)

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NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
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Hi

You are highly recommended. Please can you help?

I was driving someone else's car. They received the NIP. They filled the form with my details and returned to the police. Then I received the NIP addressed to me (its details are below). I checked the police website and there was no video provided of the incident . After I returned the NIP form, I received the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (its details are also below).

I have driven in that road several times, but I can not locate the camera mentioned in the NIP.

How is speed capture done, in my case?

I look forward to receiving your feedback.

NIP_1_1
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https://ibb.co/mJtLDb9

NIP_1_2
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https://ibb.co/9rnQvqm

Fixed_Penalty_1_1
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https://ibb.co/gzfzZwj

Fixed_Penalty_1_2
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https://ibb.co/PGgydJg

Fixed_Penalty_1_3
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https://ibb.co/JczSVF1

Fixed_Penalty_1_4
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https://ibb.co/x67G1WB

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Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #1 on: »
There is an average speed camera setup on the A40 at that location. There will be no video.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2024, 03:03:38 am by FuzzyDuck »

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #2 on: »
I would like to dispute this charge. Please can you advise me on how to go about doing this.

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #3 on: »
Simple, just ignore the COFP. Eventually you will be summoned to court, at which point you will have the opportunity to variously pick holes in the prosecution's case or present a positive defence.

Obviously, it would be beneficial to find some holes in the prosecution's case or some legal defence...
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #4 on: »
You've left your full name and address unredacted on the 4th page of the NIP.

Your dispute would be a Not Guilty plea following ignoring the kind offer of a FPN ... on what evidence are you going to rely on to pursue a Not Guilty plea ... otherwise you are going to find this a very expensive route to pursue?

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote
I would like to dispute this charge. Please can you advise me on how to go about doing this.

As above, disputing it is simple. The difficult bit comes after the police have presented their evidence to the court that you had exceeded the speed limit.

Average speed camera systems are very accurate. They take two timed photographs of the vehicle and the distance between the two cameras is known. So with the time and the distance known it is a simple calculation to determine the vehicle's average speed over the stretch. If your average speed was above the limit, you must have exceeded the limit in either all or part of the stretch.

So when the police have done their bit, what are you going to do to counter their evidence?

Failure following a trial is costly. You will pay an income-related fine of half a week's net income, a surcharge of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs of around £650. So an income of £500pw will see you pay £1,000. 

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #6 on: »
@mitaab as you now know it is against our house rules to create multiple accounts, do that again and you will be banned permanently.

You also don't get to delete a thread simply because you don't like the advice that you are given, I have now disabled this functionality in any event. We are here to give you objective advice, not to tell you what you would like to hear.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote
I would like to dispute this charge. Please can you advise me on how to go about doing this.

As above, disputing it is simple. The difficult bit comes after the police have presented their evidence to the court that you had exceeded the speed limit.

Average speed camera systems are very accurate. They take two timed photographs of the vehicle and the distance between the two cameras is known. So with the time and the distance known it is a simple calculation to determine the vehicle's average speed over the stretch. If your average speed was above the limit, you must have exceeded the limit in either all or part of the stretch.

So when the police have done their bit, what are you going to do to counter their evidence?

Failure following a trial is costly. You will pay an income-related fine of half a week's net income, a surcharge of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs of around £650. So an income of £500pw will see you pay £1,000.

This is salcat. Thank you for your feedback. I take it my chances of disputing this charge are prety slim, unless there have been cases that were successful which I can rely on in my defence?

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #8 on: »
I don't think you quite understand.

You need to have a defence to the charge. If you have some reason for believing you were not exceeding the speed limit, or if you think the police have either erred in their procedure or may not be able o prove their case, only then will other cases, which have similar features and which have been  decided in higher courts, possibly help you.

You have no mentioned anything which suggests you may have a defence to this charge. So let's start from basics: were you exceeding the speed limit?

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #9 on: »

You have no mentioned anything which suggests you may have a defence to this charge. So let's start from basics: were you exceeding the speed limit?

I believe I was not exceeding the speed limit. I don't have a proof to support my claim. They have not provided me with their video evidance either. You also previuosly mentioned that the verage speed camera systems are very accurate. So what are my options in defending it?

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #10 on: »

You have no mentioned anything which suggests you may have a defence to this charge. So let's start from basics: were you exceeding the speed limit?

I believe I was not exceeding the speed limit. I don't have a proof to support my claim. They have not provided me with their video evidance either. You also previuosly mentioned that the verage speed camera systems are very accurate. So what are my options in defending it?
Was the limit legal, and signed correctly?

Failing that avenue, you can try to prove that the equipment was at fault. That would be hugely expensive, and unlikely to succeed. As already mentioned, average speed systems are very accurate, and very reliable (there's little to go wrong).

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #11 on: »
They have not provided me with their video evidance either.

You won't get any, with the SPECS average system they take a photos of the vehicle as it passes two known located points, there is no video to provide.

Re: NIP and Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty
« Reply #12 on: »
There is an average speed camera setup on the A40 at that location. There will be no video.
You were told this in the very first reply.

You've been told how to do it, to be honest it's incredibly unlikely the speed reading is wrong,. but if your happy to take the circa £900 gamble have at it.

You'll need disclosure by the Police of the setup data for the system and then go and check if it's correct such as the distances between camera's, noting you don't just have to prove it 'may' be wrong but that it 'is' wrong and by sufficient you were doing less than the limit (not just less than the alleged sped).  There is also a risk of them having to call an expert to rebut your assertions which then could add £3-4,000 to the costs.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!