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Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
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We have a letter from the court re failure to provide information re speeding but we received the initial speeding fine late. We immediately replied, nominating the driver (me, husband is RK) only to receive a letter from the police saying we were too late and that my husband will have to appear in court now.

This is an honest mistake and we want the court to throw this case out! Fully prepared to take the consequences of the speeding fine (I realise this is a separate matter to the offence of not answering their letters). What risks are attached to disputing this please? Details (long…) below.

Our address is difficult to find. It is off a main road in a square but the address is the main road despite our house being on a square with a different name. Our address is something like Main Road 10-12, flat 2. But in reality the house is on Square X. To confuse things further, there is a Main Road 10 and also a Main Road 12 which are a bit further down the road. We frequently get the neighbours mail and vice versa. I can prove this to some extent (complaints re non delivery of items & subsequent refunds etc). At the time of the speeding offence there were also works going on at a commercial address in our building, with a separate entrance on the main road. Some of the new businesses deliveries were mistakenly left with us during this time. I don’t know if the reverse also happened as there were only various workmen coming and going at the time, no sign of the business owner.

This happens all the time. I can never order anything online without following up with instructions on how to find us or I never receive anything. Obviously the postman is much more reliable than the couriers but nobody is 100% perfect.


 

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Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #1 on: »
I’m hoping that the fact that we replied as soon as we had the fine will be in our favour, illustrating that we had zero intent of evading this matter.

And also that there is some history of mail going missing.

I won’t bore any readers with further details but our neighbours in the other flat in the building moved out around that time, and they sent someone (their cleaner I believe) around to collect their mail. At least once one of our letters seemed to have been opened by mistake as it was sellotaped and also late so I’m guessing maybe they accidentally took it with them. Who knows if the same could have happened with this letter, I can never prove that but it’s one of my theories

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #2 on: »
This is an honest mistake and we want the court to throw this case out!

And I want to wake up next to Alyson Hannigan, but it doesn't work like that.

Quote
Fully prepared to take the consequences of the speeding fine (I realise this is a separate matter to the offence of not answering their letters). What risks are attached to disputing this please?

It depends on what the options are. Is the s. 172 offence the only charge, or has he been charged with the speeding offence as well?
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #3 on: »
Thanks for your reply. It’s the only offence (failure to give info relating to the identification of the driver - I assume that’s the s. 172)

I understand that the court won’t dismiss the case. At this point I’m trying to educate myself on whether pleading guilty but asking them to consider the circumstances is better than pleading not guilty (as we did reply and give the info to the police who acknowledged receipt)
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Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #4 on: »
The law requires the information to be provided within 28 days beginning with the date of service (unless it was not reasonably practicable to do so).
Service is when the notice is delivered to the addressee's last known address. It is deemed to have been effected 2 working days after posting unless the contrary is proven.

If you plead guilty but mention in mitigation that the notice was delivered late and that you responded as soon as possible afterwards, the court ought to reject your plea and enter a plea of not guilty on your behalf.

To defend this, you would have to persuade the court, on the balance of probabilities (more likely than not), that the notice was delivered late/misdelivered.

If you plead guilty to lessen the punishment (other than the question of whether that would constitute perverting the course of justice), you would receive a 1/3 discount off the fine - so would face 6 points (MS90 endorsement code - which is likely to see insurance go up), a fine of 1 week's relevant weekly income (after tax and NI), 40% surcharge and ~£90 prosecution costs.

If you defend and win, no fine, no points, no costs.

If you defend and lose, would lose discount on fine (and surcharge on fine), so 1.5 x RWI and 40% of that, and prosecution costs would be ~£620.

As regards defending, independent/official documentary evidence of ongoing postal issues is worth its weight in gold - although the primary evidence would be your testimony.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #5 on: »
Gosh so would both my husband and I get points? Me 3 points for the speeding and husband 6 points for not responding to a letter (which we had no chance to respond any earlier to)

This is really harsh I have to say. We did the absolute best we could under the circumstances and the thought of our cost of living increasing further is too much to bear. Plus the fine. I’m going to be sick


More to the point I’m struggling to understand your advice. We should not plead guilty, as that would be seen as perverting the course of justice? I thought the courts hated it when people plead not guilty as in their eyes he most definitely is: as far as they are concerned they sent this out on time and we didn’t respond.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2024, 05:16:22 pm by DB40 »

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #6 on: »
More to the point I’m struggling to understand your advice.

Please see the comment in my sig.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #7 on: »
Gosh so would both my husband and I get points? Me 3 points for the speeding and husband 6 points for not responding to a letter (which we had no chance to respond any earlier to)


If your husband's response had been received in time, you would have received a letter in your own name, asking you to confirm that you were driving. Since you have not, there is no evidence on which to convict you of speeding.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #8 on: »
We returned the form asap nominating me

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #9 on: »
@andy_foster Thank you again for taking the time to respond. Of course you are not responsible for my level of understanding - I am not an educated person - and I did not mean to criticise or offend you in any way. This is new to me and as you kindly took the time to respond to my initial question I thought you wouldn’t mind a follow up question.

Based on what you write it is my understanding that the only risk free option for us is to plead not guilty and go to court, as pleading guilty could be seen as perverting the court of justice, which sounds like it would lead to an even worse outcome.




Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #10 on: »
Based on what you write it is my understanding that the only risk free option for us is to plead not guilty and go to court, as pleading guilty could be seen as perverting the court of justice, which sounds like it would lead to an even worse outcome.
You are free to plead guilty or not guilty, that would never be seen as perverting the course of justice under any circumstances. However presenting false evidence (only applicable to not guilty) could amount to perjury.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #11 on: »
Based on what you write it is my understanding that the only risk free option for us is to plead not guilty and go to court, as pleading guilty could be seen as perverting the court of justice, which sounds like it would lead to an even worse outcome.
You are free to plead guilty or not guilty, that would never be seen as perverting the course of justice under any circumstances. However presenting false evidence (only applicable to not guilty) could amount to perjury.

Can you cite authority for that proposition?
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #12 on: »
Husband is facing a criminal record over this. I know he is free to enter either plea, but with this much hanging in the balance I am just trying to find the best course of action.

This could ruin so much for us. I think he even risks being fired from his job should this happen, I know nobody cares and we have no way of proving we didn’t receive these letters but we genuinely didn’t.

This is a life changing event and
 I am devastated.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #13 on: »
The comment about a guilty plea potentially being tantamount to perverting the course of justice came from a previous poster. I probably misunderstood but basically trying to enter mitigating factors in the hopes of the court converting a guilty plea to not guilty could be viewed as an attempt to pervert the course of justice.

So a guilty plea should be made without further comment to eliminate this risk

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #14 on: »
Husband is facing a criminal record over this. I know he is free to enter either plea, but with this much hanging in the balance I am just trying to find the best course of action.

This could ruin so much for us. I think he even risks being fired from his job should this happen, I know nobody cares and we have no way of proving we didn’t receive these letters but we genuinely didn’t.

This is a life changing event and
 I am devastated.
If your husband is found or pleads guilty to failing to nominate the driver, he will have points on his licence, and will have to pay a fine, a surcharge and costs.

What he will NOT have is a criminal record.