Author Topic: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket  (Read 6490 times)

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Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #15 on: »
The comment about a guilty plea potentially being tantamount to perverting the course of justice came from a previous poster. I probably misunderstood but basically trying to enter mitigating factors in the hopes of the court converting a guilty plea to not guilty could be viewed as an attempt to pervert the course of justice.
Whilst I would not argue with Andy's interpretation of the law (he knows much more about these things than I do) personally I doubt that would happen to an unrepresented defendant in a Magistrates' Court. A defendant representing himself is not expected to know such points of law and whilst a guilty plea for the sake of expediency is often refused by a court, I would think the worst that would happen would be just that.

There is a defence to the charge which says this:

“the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it.”

It was not “reasonably practicable” for your husband to give the information within the time allowed as he had not received the request by the time that period had expired. However, he gave the information as soon as it was reasonably practicable for him to do so (i.e. as soon as he received the request).

The task he will have  is convincing the court that the request was not received in time. You do seem to have quite  catalogue of reasons why your post may well suffer problems. If he does decide to defend the charge it would certainly be beneficial If he could provide some independent evidence of this, perhaps from neighbours or even the Post Office.

In the event he decides to plead guilty it is unlikely that any mitigation will significantly influence the sentence. The offence carries a fixed six points and the level of the fine is fairly prescriptive. So I think really the decision is whether to plead not guilty and trying to convince he court that the request was received late, or to plead guilty and get the guaranteed reduction in the financial penalty that comes with that.

This is a life changing event and I am devastated.

Of course I don't know your personal circumstances but I imagine there are few people for whom this would prove to be a "life changing event". Whilst it is not the least serious of traffic offences, it is fairly minor in the scheme of things and attracts just a fine and penalty points, though you will see quite an increase in insurance premiums for a few years. How else do you suspect it will change your lives?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2024, 05:17:16 pm by NewJudge »

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #16 on: »
@NewJudge thank you, it won’t be life changing if it isn’t a criminal offence, so this forum has already been immensely helpful in putting my racing mind at some ease.

It comes down to whether we can prove that the letters didn’t reach us. I appreciate that this won’t be easy. While I have plenty of proof that couriers can’t find us it’s not as easy with the Royal Mail. It happened once about four years ago but I have no written proof of this.

Personally I think it’s much more likely that our neighbours (both old and new) or the builders/new business in the building grabbed our mail by mistake and returned it at some later point. Not sure we can prove this happened.

Food for thought.

Thanks so much everyone!

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #17 on: »
It is a criminal offence. However, it is not a recordable offence, which means it doesn’t form part of a person’s criminal record.
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #18 on: »
It is a criminal offence. However, it is not a recordable offence, which means it doesn’t form part of a person’s criminal record.
Also most countries consider minor motoring offences irrelevant for VISA purposes, as I love the wording I'll use the American example, it's not a 'crime of moral turpitude'.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #19 on: »
Update: pleaded guilty, court responded to say that they are unable to accept our plea of guilty and gave us a court date. Also said we should consider seeking legal advice which I hope is just a standard line.

I’m so confused, they say husband was guilty, he accepts and pleads guilty, and now they are unable to accept that plea? Is this because we also said that a) we replied to the police letter as soon as we had it b) we had no intention to evade responsibility for the speeding offence c) we believe the mail got lost and offered a possible explanation along with evidence such as previous neighbours confirming same happened to them on two occasions

I can only assume this has been regarded as an attempt to pervert the course of justice as a previous poster warned me about

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #20 on: »
I can only assume this has been regarded as an attempt to pervert the course of justice as a previous poster warned me about
No it hasn't.

Pleading not guilty to a charge cannot be seen as PCoJ. If it was, everybody who did so but who was subsequently convicted would be charged with that offence and that clearly doesn't happen.

What your husband has written indicates to the court that he may not be guilty. That is why his plea has been declined. The circumstances need to be explored a little more and that is what will happen at his hearing.

You should bear in mind that there is no "we" or "us" involved in this. Only one of you faces the charge. 

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #21 on: »
Update: pleaded guilty, court responded to say that they are unable to accept our plea of guilty and gave us a court date. Also said we should consider seeking legal advice which I hope is just a standard line.

I’m so confused, they say husband was guilty, he accepts and pleads guilty, and now they are unable to accept that plea? Is this because we also said that a) we replied to the police letter as soon as we had it b) we had no intention to evade responsibility for the speeding offence c) we believe the mail got lost and offered a possible explanation along with evidence such as previous neighbours confirming same happened to them on two occasions

I can only assume this has been regarded as an attempt to pervert the course of justice as a previous poster warned me about
Please stop using "we" and "us", it only confuses matters. There is no "we" or "us": only one person is involved, and that presumably is your husband.

Also, "they say husband was guilty". Who is "they"? The court certainly won't say that at this stage, otherwise there would be no point in having courts.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #22 on: »
Is this because we also said that a) we replied to the police letter as soon as we had it b) we had no intention to evade responsibility for the speeding offence c) we believe the mail got lost and offered a possible explanation along with evidence such as previous neighbours confirming same happened to them on two occasions

I can only assume this has been regarded as an attempt to pervert the course of justice as a previous poster warned me about

Try reading the rest of that post - the bit where that poster told you why this would happen.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #23 on: »
Us = husband and I. I am aware that only one of us is being charged but it’s very much a family problem (which I caused as I am the one who committed the original speeding offence), I did not think this would cause confusion but apologies if it did

They = the police

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #24 on: »
I am beyond appreciative of all the advice offered, but for the non-advice posters I would just like to point out that it is not necessary to point out to me how they are not responsible for my level of understanding (of course not) or that I should try reading the post (I did, but needed further clarification as I did not understand fully - and yes, that is my responsibility, no one else’s). I am not educated to any significant level nor am I knowledgeable about legal matters. I humbly ask for advice because I am clueless and probably not clever enough to understand what is about to happen. Thanks so much for all your help everyone and hopefully this may be of help to others who may one day find themselves in the same position. I’ll update once we have been to court

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #25 on: »
Us = husband and I
Incorrect, you're not listening. You were told this twice - this is why people are telling you to read posts!

Only one of you has a court date, the other does not, so when you said 'giving us a court date' that can't be both of you, it can only be one of you so 'us' cannot be your husband and you.  Likewise your 'we' can't be both of you looking for advice as only the person named needs it, the other has no damned use for it.

So how about you explain what is actually happening?

And stop multiple positing, if you want to add after posting, use Modify not a new post please.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2024, 12:42:30 pm by The Rookie »
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« Reply #26 on: »
One of the problems with free legal advice, is that those seeking it often value it, and perhaps the time of those providing it, accordingly.

You were told, in plain English that if you provided the "mitigation" that you proposed that the court ought to reject your guilty plea as it amounted to a defence. You chose not to follow that advice. That is your choice.

You posted that you did not understand the advice given, as if that was our problem. I assured you that it was not. To most people, the solution to struggling to understand advice given is variously to read it again until you do understand, or seek specific clarification on the bits that you can't understand.

After deciding not to follow the advice given, you came back to ask why the court had rejected your plea. We had already told you this before you decided to ignore our advice. You were asking a question that has already been answered.

You seem to think that those pointing out the issues with your posting are rude. I would suggest that the contempt you have shown to those trying to help you with your legal problem is what is rude.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.