Author Topic: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible  (Read 1318 times)

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TawanaNyasha

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help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« on: August 10, 2023, 10:25:01 am »
My 19 y.o got a speeding ticket from a fixed camera (for doing 58m on a 50m) (on 8/7/23 and my immediate gut instinct was this was not possible as he was coming from a 30m zone (roundabout) joining a 50m and there is a very short acceleration distance. Also, his little Ford Fiesta has seen better days and struggles to reach 50 m on a straight road, let alone a bend. My car is faster and the only place I could reach 58m was from a 50-mile zone joining a 70-mile zone and even that is with hard acceleration.

He admitted the charge and got a Speed awareness test. (has been driving since  a year ago) Every time we go past the place he got the ticket, we keep saying that it is not feasible to accelerate that fast at such a bend coming from a 30. If anyone knows, it is Southwold Road on slip nr A2 (by Holiday Inn, coming from Bexleyheath side, going towards London, after the roundabout (Bexley village-Bexleyheath-London)  Nevertheless, he accepted the charge and got offered a speed awareness test.

Yesterday, he received 3 further tickets, same place, different dates, uncannily 2 of the tickets were exactly the same time. He leaves home around 0520 (he is an apprentice in Charlton and starts at 6 am. He is very distressed and confused, as am i as I have attempted to accelerate in my car which is faster, but barely managed to reach 50 by the time I joined the carriageway due to the very short distance from the 30 m zone to the 50. I really have no idea how to proceed as he is now likely to lose his license. any advice would be welcome.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 01:15:06 pm by andy_foster »

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guest303

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2023, 01:41:06 pm »
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DWMB2

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2023, 02:01:47 pm »
Given that the OP's son has received a total of 4 NIPs for alleged speeding offences at this location, suggesting they commit potential further offences to test out their theory probably isn't sound advice...

guest303

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2023, 02:19:47 pm »
Given that the OP's son has received a total of 4 NIPs for alleged speeding offences at this location, suggesting they commit potential further offences to test out their theory probably isn't sound advice...

Fair comment, so how about they in THEORY add 10 mph to their exit speed and then add 10 mph to the speedo reading as they pass the camera then, ie if the speedo reads 48mph at the camera then add 10mph to it and the magic figure of 58mph may appear therefore proving my point about the speed of the car while in the 30mph zone.
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The Rookie

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2023, 03:21:08 pm »
Given that the OP's son has received a total of 4 NIPs for alleged speeding offences at this location, suggesting they commit potential further offences to test out their theory probably isn't sound advice...

Fair comment, so how about they in THEORY add 10 mph to their exit speed and then add 10 mph to the speedo reading as they pass the camera then
As acceleration is non linear with speed that would be utterly pointless as it would prove nothing at all.  Also the son may not be willing to take the roundabout at the same speed with mum or dad onboard!  the fact it was coming from a 30 is hardly helpful if the defence assumes compliance with that limit when defending a speeding allegation.

OP, how about posting a Google Street View link to the location please? Let's look subjectively at how likely the allegation is to be 'plausible'.

I don't know of any Fiesta. not even a mk1 957cc that struggles to reach 50mph, which model(year)/engine?

As the son faces losing his licence though it is certainly worth considering defending the allegations as the costs must be weighed against the benefits.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 03:27:55 pm by The Rookie »
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guest303

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2023, 04:45:57 pm »
Given that the OP's son has received a total of 4 NIPs for alleged speeding offences at this location, suggesting they commit potential further offences to test out their theory probably isn't sound advice...

Fair comment, so how about they in THEORY add 10 mph to their exit speed and then add 10 mph to the speedo reading as they pass the camera then
As acceleration is non linear with speed that would be utterly pointless as it would prove nothing at all.  Also the son may not be willing to take the roundabout at the same speed with mum or dad onboard!  the fact it was coming from a 30 is hardly helpful if the defence assumes compliance with that limit when defending a speeding allegation.

OP, how about posting a Google Street View link to the location please? Let's look subjectively at how likely the allegation is to be 'plausible'.

I don't know of any Fiesta. not even a mk1 957cc that struggles to reach 50mph, which model(year)/engine?

As the son faces losing his licence though it is certainly worth considering defending the allegations as the costs must be weighed against the benefits.


The point I'm making is that if the driver entered the 50mph zone at 40mph he would only need to increase his speed by 18mph before passing the camera at 58mph whereas if he entered the 50mph zone doing 30mph then he would need to increase his speed by 28mph which in the distance may not be possible in that vehicle, so without knowing what speed he entered the 50mph zone at the condition/performance of his vehicle is of no importance and not really a credible defence.

NewJudge

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2023, 07:30:23 pm »
I know that area quite well.

Was he heading from Bexley Village, towards the London bound A2 (i.e. with the Holiday Inn on the right)? Perhaps here?

 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.447241,0.153756,0h,0p,1.3z,JKuOfwC8QPdv6fEyPMLmqw

I'm not sure how far beyond the beginning of the 50mph limit the camera is.

The problem he faces is that an approved device (the camera and its associated speed measurement apparatus) is assumed to be working correctly unless the contrary can be shown. Unfortunately simply suggesting such a speed is not possible is unlikely to cut the mustard.

Can you confirm the location? 

 

guest303

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2023, 07:42:55 pm »
I know that area quite well.

Was he heading from Bexley Village, towards the London bound A2 (i.e. with the Holiday Inn on the right)? Perhaps here?

 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.447241,0.153756,0h,0p,1.3z,JKuOfwC8QPdv6fEyPMLmqw

I'm not sure how far beyond the beginning of the 50mph limit the camera is.

The problem he faces is that an approved device (the camera and its associated speed measurement apparatus) is assumed to be working correctly unless the contrary can be shown. Unfortunately simply suggesting such a speed is not possible is unlikely to cut the mustard.

Can you confirm the location?





"I'm not sure how far beyond the beginning of the 50mph limit the camera is",,,,, a long way.

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.448299,0.136438,269.5h,9.82p,0.14z,c3Nc4AhIFKhcZrNUSt58bQ

1200mtrs to go from 30mph to 58mph seems doable



Ftla2933

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2023, 10:47:34 pm »
Clearly the only sensible idea would be for you and your son to go out and do some further speed tests to see how fast you can go past the speed camera

guest303

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2023, 12:09:42 am »
Clearly the only sensible idea would be for you and your son to go out and do some further speed tests to see how fast you can go past the speed camera
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John U.K.

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2023, 08:17:14 am »
Is his speedometer faulty?

NewJudge

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2023, 11:43:57 am »
Quote
1200mtrs to go from 30mph to 58mph seems doable

If it really is that far from the junction to the point he was caught, I cannot see how he can possibly argue that his car is incapable of reaching 58mph in that distance. I would suggest it could comfortably achieve that from a standing start.
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DWMB2

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2023, 11:54:59 am »
I think we need the OP to confirm the locations of where the camera was, and where the car was travelling from.

guest303

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2023, 01:06:50 pm »
I think we need the OP to confirm the locations of where the camera was, and where the car was travelling from.


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andy_foster

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Re: help, 19 y.o 4 tickets same camera, speed impossible
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2023, 01:42:13 pm »
I think we need the OP to confirm the locations of where the camera was, and where the car was travelling from.

Or even better, get their son to provide the information first hand.

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