3. Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
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Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
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Please help:

I was driving in Luton, and inadvertently stopped over the stop line at a red light.

Pictures attached. Please advise








Thanks in advance.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #1 on: »
You need to respond naming yourself as the driver.

For that "time into red" the police may well prosecute you in court.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #2 on: »
There is no intent required for this offence, so that it was accidental isn't a help.

The offence is committed if any part of the car progresses over the stop line when the lights are red, just the front or rear bumper is enough, which can clearly be seen to have happened here.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #3 on: »
I have responded naming myself as the driver.
I forgot to upload the letter:

Is the best course of action to take the driving education course?
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #4 on: »
You can tick it, it's a long way into red to be offered it but no harm in trying IMO.
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There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!
Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #5 on: »
So no chance of appealing and winning?
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
So no chance of appealing and winning?

You have nothing to appeal against at the moment. This is not like a parking ticket where you can appeal to have it quashed by an adjudicator. It is an allegation of a criminal offence.

The police may offer you an out-of-court option (a course or a fixed penalty) though I doubt they will (because of the amount of time "into red"). If they did make an offer you would have to accept the allegation as it stands (and grab the offer with both hands). The only way you can challenge the allegation is in court, where you would have to plead not guilty. From your description and the photographs, that would be foolhardy.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #7 on: »
Only possible defence I can see (other than plead not guilty, put prosecution to proof on everything and hope they miss something, that you notice what they missed, and court does not grant them an adjournment to fix it) is where your car was in relation to the "stop line". The white line(s) appear from the photo to be quite worn - if there is no stop line painted on the road, the stop line is the imaginary line between the traffic lights.

From the photos, i can't tell if the stop line is "intact", or where the front of your car is in relation to the imaginary line.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #8 on: »
To expand on what AF says, if the stop line is so worn (or missing completely) as to not 'adequately convey' where it is, the the stop line is set/deemed level with the light itself which you don't appear to have passed.

Not strictly an appeal, no court decision to appeal, more a proposed defence.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #9 on: »
There's a staggered stop line if it's the same as GSV, the right turn lane is extended by about 10 foot from the one for left/straight over lanes. I can see how OP may have been confused, especially with the extra lines after the stop line as well.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8799801,-0.4219917,3a,79.1y,150.96h,71.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8b-okF_bFuzuh2kcltmx5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: sparxy on May 30, 2024, 07:30:19 pm
There's a staggered stop line if it's the same as GSV, the right turn lane is extended by about 10 foot from the one for left/straight over lanes. I can see how OP may have been confused, especially with the extra lines after the stop line as well.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8799801,-0.4219917,3a,79.1y,150.96h,71.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8b-okF_bFuzuh2kcltmx5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


From the picture it looks the same
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #11 on: »
The course will be a bit less than £100. No points and no need to declare to most insurers.

If you feel you can convince the magistrates it didn't properly convey where the stop line was you can put that argument forward. Failure will be around £1000.

Plus you will have lost a day's pay or holiday (possibly 2) and associated travel costs.


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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: slapdash on June 01, 2024, 06:38:30 pm
The course will be a bit less than £100. No points and no need to declare to most insurers.

If you feel you can convince the magistrates it didn't properly convey where the stop line was you can put that argument forward. Failure will be around £1000.

Plus you will have lost a day's pay or holiday (possibly 2) and associated travel costs.




Ok thanks, I'll go with the course then.
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Re: Failure to stop at red light - went over the stop line
« Reply #13 on: »
The timing of the pictures would indicate that it took 1.9 seconds for the car to creep forward over the stop line.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
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