Author Topic: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal  (Read 1291 times)

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Just234

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Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« on: September 19, 2024, 09:23:21 am »
I have just realised I’ve got a failure to notify of driver for a speeding offence which I did not know about after checking my drivers license online. 6 points and a fine.

So I’m looking for advice on how to appeal.
I’ve read all about the statutory declaration but the process seems to have changed since that was all written as it’s all done online on a form.

I was given a number to call who sent me a link for an online form to complete which I had various options to select to appeal.

It asks on the form would I like to request to reopen my case or make a statutory declaration that I did not know about the case.
So I’ve chosen the latter.

Then it asks do I plead
a,guilty or
b,not guilty or
c, both guilty/not guilty to more than one charge.
(I did not know about any of the charges against me as we don’t receive some of the mail delivered at our house through a combination of no mailbox in the property with communal hallway where mail is delivered to/ transient flat residents/non residents residing here/ fallout with neighbours and police involvement all of which I can evidence of chasing up mail, and emails requesting to companies for email correspondence only.
So I would plead not guilty to the charge of failure to notify on the basis I did not receive the notice sent.
The speeding charge I was driving my son to hospital - can I plead not guilty? Or do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating circumstances?

The form then asks for information regarding your plea- do I have to fill in every detail here as to why I feel I’m not guilty/guilty?

It later on asks for any further information and a place to upload any documentarian. Do I have to upload all evidence here to support my claim? Ie. Show emails regarding lost mail etc? Hospital paperwork?

There was a driving ban issued on the same day the points were added to my license but it’s not mentioned in the paperwork supplied in the email but is shown on my license online  - driving ban due to totting up of points
How do I address this? Do I just add this in to ‘ further information’?
Once my form is completed it says they will then decide whether to reopen the case - will the ban be stayed until a court hearing? Do I need to request the court to lift the driving ban? They said it takes 6 months currently to get a court hearing, but can be treated as urgent because of the ban but no timescales were given for urgent cases.
I can’t work without my license so it’s vital to me.

Any help would be much appreciated.
And given the lost mail can I request further mail to be sent to a different address? Or email?

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The Rookie

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2024, 12:18:55 pm »
So I’m looking for advice on how to appeal.
You don't, as you then correctly say you submit a statutory declaration which is NOT an appeal.

So I would plead not guilty to the charge of failure to notify on the basis I did not receive the notice sent.
What matters is not whether you didn't receive it but whether it was served or not, as a number of items of post (as least 3, more likely 4) were not received by you it suggests the Police did not have the correct address for you (despite what you say, as 4 items going missing is 'unlikely' I would suggest), perhaps you moved and forgot to update the V5c registration document address with the DVLA?

The speeding charge I was driving my son to hospital - can I plead not guilty? Or do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating circumstances?
Of course you can (and should currently) plead not guilty, whether you then continue that is a different matter, if the S172 notice was properly served (and you have to prove it wasn't) you will currently be found guilty of the more onerous S172 offence, as such offering to plead guilty to the speeding (when you can't then offer a defence) in exchange for the S172 being dropped seems the pragmatic option.

Driving your son to hospital is, of itself' meaningless unless you are suggesting it was some form of an emergency, obviously to a routine appointment is no different top driving to a book shop.

There was a driving ban issued on the same day the points were added to my license but it’s not mentioned in the paperwork supplied in the email but is shown on my license online  - driving ban due to totting up of points
Very unfortunate, this is where applying online is going to probably be bad, if you contact the court in person and speak to someone you may get your hearing expedited, whatever you put in an online application will probably not be looked at until it reaches the front of the queue - in some time from now.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

andy_foster

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2024, 01:38:05 pm »
So I’m looking for advice on how to appeal.
You don't, as you then correctly say you submit a statutory declaration which is NOT an appeal.

Pedantic much?
Technically, the OP could appeal to the Crown Court, but a stat dec is a far better solution.
Currently, the OP has been convicted of an offence in his absence and received a totting ban. He is seeking to challenge this conviction. If he was asking whether to do a stat dec, appeal to the crown court or appeal by way of case stated, stat dec, not appeal would be an appropriate response, but in the context of his post, the distinction is pedantry.

Quote
So I would plead not guilty to the charge of failure to notify on the basis I did not receive the notice sent.
What matters is not whether you didn't receive it but whether it was served or not, as a number of items of post (as least 3, more likely 4) were not received by you it suggests the Police did not have the correct address for you (despite what you say, as 4 items going missing is 'unlikely' I would suggest), perhaps you moved and forgot to update the V5c registration document address with the DVLA?

Spouting bollox after being pointlessly pedantic is not a good look!

There are 2 potential "defences" (for practical purposes) to the s. 172 charge - whether the notice was served, and whether it was reasonably practicable to provide the information. Not receiving the notice is not in itself a complete defence, but if the circumstances were such that it would not have been reasonably practicable for the OP to ensure that such notices were brought to his attention and he was not aware of it, then it was not reasonably practicable to provide the information.

Quote
The speeding charge I was driving my son to hospital - can I plead not guilty? Or do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating circumstances?
Of course you can (and should currently) plead not guilty, whether you then continue that is a different matter, if the S172 notice was properly served (and you have to prove it wasn't) you will currently be found guilty of the more onerous S172 offence, as such offering to plead guilty to the speeding (when you can't then offer a defence) in exchange for the S172 being dropped seems the pragmatic option.

I agree that based on what the OP has told us, he should plead not guilty to both charges. It is uncertain from his account whether he has sufficient information to enable him to plead guilty (in theory you cannot plead guilty to an offence without knowing what the charge is and what material facts are being alleged - because that is what you are pleading guilty to) - although that is largely academic.

Some areas send guidance with the SJPN stating that if the accused pleads guilty to one of the offences, the other will automatically be dropped. If the OP has been provided with such guidance, then it might be advantageous to "do the deal" at the earliest opportunity, or not - depending on the strength of his defences if the charges went to trial.

The fact that the OP was taking his son to hospital is not in itself a [complete] defence. It depends on the circumstances. I am not going to hypothesise about what possible circumstances might constitute a defence - we apply the law to the facts, not the other way round.

There is also the question of whether the OP could be asked whether he was driving when defending the s. 172 charge, or whether inferences could be made. However, if the OP's defence to the s. 172 relies largely on his credibility, running a technical defence to the speeding charge may not be helpful.

Quote
Driving your son to hospital is, of itself' meaningless unless you are suggesting it was some form of an emergency, obviously to a routine appointment is no different top driving to a book shop.

That.

Quote
There was a driving ban issued on the same day the points were added to my license but it’s not mentioned in the paperwork supplied in the email but is shown on my license online  - driving ban due to totting up of points
Very unfortunate, this is where applying online is going to probably be bad, if you contact the court in person and speak to someone you may get your hearing expedited, whatever you put in an online application will probably not be looked at until it reaches the front of the queue - in some time from now.

Also, that.

The ban has been imposed by a court of law. Unless and until a court of law quashes or suspends the ban, you are banned - regardless of what defence you may be able to present. The stat dec would set aside the conviction and sentence, but you are banned until then - unless you can get a court to suspend it before then.


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Just234

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2024, 02:39:39 pm »
Thankyou for all of the above
Really grateful

So just to clarify
Proving that I didn’t receive my mail is a mountain clime I guess even with a dated solicitors email demonstrating this exact issue and request for email correspondence due to mail going missing….? 

I do know the full details of the offence I’ve been charged with as all the information was supplied in email from the court along with the form link.

The only reason why I know it was me driving the vehicle on that particular day was because my son broke both bones in his leg and it was an emergency run to hospital. It wasn’t the best idea to take him in the car in hindsight but he was in so much pain with morpheme and gas and air administered when we got to A&e it was a absolutely traumatic time and will save you the gory details. 
I think I could provide enough to the court to prove this was extreme circumstances and not a normal appointment or day having had a clear license for 7 years.

The other question was about the amount of information I add to the online form- do I write it all out as if presenting my full case to the court?
The form gives no guidance at all on this.

I’ve spoken to the court and they’ve said submit the online form and then it will be expedited due to the ban. I just have to ring the court back in about 2 weeks.


Just234

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Timescales for Speeding and failed to notify court action
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2024, 01:15:20 pm »
Please could anyone clarify the timescales for me for the following
Speeding offence recorded on 01/04/23
Failed to Notify of drivers details 29/08/23
Summons issued 16/01/24

I know there is a 6 month time limit but don’t know when the clock starts on that time limit. Is it date of speeding offence? Or the offence of failed to notify date?
Please could anyone clarify


andy_foster

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Re: Timescales for Speeding and failed to notify court action
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2024, 02:18:57 pm »
Please could anyone clarify

No. Not from the information provided in your new thread.

Rule #1 Do not start new threads for existing cases.

Also motoring offence prosecutions are instigated by issuing a written charge, not a summons, so the date of any subsequent summons is immaterial.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Just234

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2024, 02:50:12 pm »
My apologies on my rule break

Please explain where the 6 month rule comes in then please if at all possible.

Just234

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2024, 02:53:45 pm »
And if it’s called a written charge edited to clarify -
Speeding offence recorded on 01/04/23
Failed to Notify of drivers details 29/08/23
Written Charge issued 16/01/24

andy_foster

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2024, 03:40:56 pm »
And if it’s called a written charge edited to clarify -

A Written Charge is called a written charge. A Summons is called a summons. A stale ham and mustard sandwich is called a stale ham and mustard sandwich.

You have told us that a summons was issued on 16/01/2024. You now appear to be saying that if the thing you previously called a summons is actually a written charge, then that was issued on 16/01/2024. You might as well be talking about a ham sandwich.

What was issued on 16/01/2024? Most official documents have a title at the top in big letters. Ham sandwiches, not so much.

You tell us what actually happened, and we will explain how the law applies.

edit: If you are looking for a potential technical defence (and there is nothing wrong with that), then accurate details are everything. You are currently banned, and potentially will remain so until the 6 months expires. We aren't. Who has most to gain from you posting clear and accurate information?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2024, 03:45:38 pm by andy_foster »
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DWMB2

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2024, 03:58:42 pm »
Given there is apparent confusion as to what the document issued on 16th January is, you may wish to show us a copy of it.

Just234

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2024, 06:32:03 pm »
It would be really helpful if you could explain the 6 month timescale.



Southpaw82

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2024, 06:39:06 pm »
Six months from the date of each offence.

NB: the date of the speeding offence and the date of the s 172 offence are different.

Just234

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2024, 07:29:51 pm »
Thankyou

So it is the failure to provide offence that is the factor here and is within the 6 month timescale
The speeding fine is not being from April

So that being the case I am required to plead only on that failure to provide charge.

I’ve read somewhere else that usually a failure to notify would be issued and recorded a month after the date of the speeding offence.
Why is mine dated 4 months later? Is this normal practise?



Southpaw82

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2024, 08:21:54 pm »
The s 172 offence is often committed about a month after the speeding offence. Assuming by “issued” you mean proceedings commenced by written charge, no.

Just234

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Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2024, 09:36:38 pm »
By issued i mean committed the offence
(I'm sorry I don’t know how to word things properly and my memory/processing is not great.
I keep having to read and re read and it’s confusing for me.) I’ll explain
So…
I was caught speeding sent an s172 request for info 
I’m assuming (I did not receive it) I would have been given ‘X’ amount of days to respond. Let’s say 28 days. You would think on the 29th day I’ve passed the deadline date and therefore have committed a offence of failing to provide which would give reason for a charge with a s172 failure to reply offence…..?
So why if I’ve been sent a s172 request on 12/04/2023 has the charge of failure to notify been dated 4 months later?
The Postal requisition sent and dated 11/12/23 stating charge of failure to supply details 29/08/23

I’m just trying to work out the 6month timescales - do I have an argument to say the August date is wrong and that 6 months from the date of the original speeding offence plus 1month would mean the postal requisition sent in December is out of time?