Hi guys,
Thanks for taking time and reading this.
Got myself into a little pickle and any help would be must appreciated.
In January 2023 I sold my car to a dealership without a V5c, because I lost it and they said they could take care of it, but they did a V62 to change ownership. The car was then bought in Feburary some time and was caught speeding, 36 in a 30.
Unfortunately, I had moved house so didn't recieve the letters to state who was driving the car at that point. Around 7 month letter, I got a huge fine from HMCTS and a Wage arrest, it was only then did I know what happened.
After a long and complicated time, I got the case opened and went to court. I was silly and thought that by going to court, pleading not guilty, and telling them that it wasn't me driving and with the dealership being to provide all evidence of when the car was bought and who by etc, that would be it. Instead the speeding was dropped and was charged with MS90, and lwas told I should have written a letter to dvla when I sold the car to tell them the car had been sold at that point since the v5c was lost. 2 weeks after selling the car I moved house, I did update the driving license, but didn't go to the post office to forward any mail.
Another hearing is due, I came across this website and thought id chance my luck and see if anyone can offer some advice. Would it be any use to get a solicitor? I phoned a few and each one said it unfortunate and a complicated one.
Thanks again, much appreciated
To clarify (because your version of events, as written makes my head hurt)..
You failed to notify the DVLA of change of keeper when you sold your car. This was your legal obligation.
The garage said that they would take care of that by requesting a new V5C by sending a completed V62 form.
The car was sold the following month.
At some later and as yet unspecified date it was caught speeding.
A NIP incorporating a requirement under s. 172 was sent at some later date to your "last known address" and deemed served 2 working days later.
You did not respond to this requirement, due to being unaware of it.
An SJPN was issued for the offence of failing to name the driver, and presumably also for the underlying speeding offence. You did not receive this as it was sent to your previous address (your last known address).
You were convicted in your absence of the s. 172 offence (MS90 is the DVLA endorsement code). You would not have been convicted of the speeding offence as there was no evidence that you were the driver.
You got the conviction set aside under s. 14 Magistrates Courts Act 1980 as you were unaware of the proceedings.
You are now facing the s. 172 charge again, the difference being that you are now aware of that.
N.B. The timeline, such that it is, is based on your account, and may well not be accurate.
At first blush, this is your own fault for failing to notify the DVLA of change of keeper. There is a statutory defence to failing to name the driver where it was not reasonably practicable to provide the information required - however, simply being unaware of the notice is not in and of itself sufficient, reasonable practicability will include the wider question of whether or not it would have been reasonably practicable to ensure that any such notices were brought to your attention, such as by complying with your legal obligation to notify the DVLA of change of keeper.
However, all might not be lost. Or it might.
Ordinarily, when a vehicle is sold to a trader, it is recorded as being "in trade", until such time as it is sold and registered in the name of the new buyer.
Off the top of my head, the V62 process can be quite lengthy as the DVLA are supposed to write to the registered keeper to give them an opportunity to object to the transfer.
What we do not know is whether the V62 process was still in progress at the material time (when the car was caught speeding, or when the police looked up the RK details) - in which case everything is your fault, or whether it had been completed and was showing as "in trade" and you were sent the NIP as "previous keeper" - in which case it would seem that your prior failure to notify the DVLA would have made no difference and the defence would seem to have legs.
When was the vehicle sold to the dealer?
When did the dealer sell the vehicle?
When did the dealer receive the new V5C?
When and how did the dealer register the vehicle to the buyer?
When was the vehicle caught speeding?
When was the NIP/s. 172 sent to your previous address (we could work this out from the s. 172 offence date)?
Thanks very much for taking time to write such a informative post.
I had contacted the garage to see if they have any more details regarding if the v62 was complete when they sold the car.
The car was sold on the 13th of Jan, and was caught speeding on the 5th of Feb, so there's a high chance the v62 wasn't complete.
What are my next options then? Do I just plead guilty, or is there a way of asking to try get less than Ms90, 6 points and £1000 fine.
Also I stay in scotland, and I need to travel to Manchester so its quite a journey, do you know if I must attend court to plead guilty since there isn't any way to fight this.
Once again, this is very much appreciated.
The 6 points and MS90 endorsement code are mandatory on conviction (unless the court finds that there are special reasons not to endorse - which is mitigation regarding the commission of the offence that is so compelling that the court properly ought to consider not ordering your licensed to be endorsed - generally that the offence was committed through no real fault of your own, but that the circumstances do not constitute a defence - or unless they decided to ban you outright for the offence - which would go against their guidance and the intention of Parliament if done in order to avoid a totting up ban).
There is no "£1000 fine", and nobody has told you that there is. The fine itself cannot exceed level 3 on the standard scale - £1000. The staring point is 150% of your Relevant Weekly Income (reduced by 1/3 to 100% RWI for an early guilty plea) plus 40% surcharge plus prosecution costs (~£95 for a guilty plea, ~£620 for a contested trial).
If you plead guilty by post, there is no obvious reason why your attendance would be required.