Author Topic: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute  (Read 349 times)

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RoseyMe12-34

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Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« on: May 02, 2024, 03:53:01 pm »
NIP dated  1st May received today 2nd May (updated - today is 02/05/2024!!) with Royal mail stamp post 01.05.24.

M11 Motoway near Luxborough Lane road bridge, Chigwell.
Offence - Exceed a 50mph speed restriction on a special road/Motoway - automatic camera device.

Speed of vehicle - 65mph
Speed limit - 50 mph
Date - 27/04/2024
Time - 03:54


Hi everyone,

I'm new here, I've been reading up on different posts to see if I can find information to help my husband. I'm the registered keeper of the vehicle so the NIP was sent in my name.

I know they say ignorance is not a defence but the incident was really not intentional.
My husband and I had been coming from Stansted airport early Saturday morning after just returning from holiday in Cyprus and picked up the car from the airport carpark. There were lots of road works on the road around the airport so we were grateful for Waze on the phone for navigation as it rerouted us.

We tend to use the speed limit showing on Waze screen whenever we use it for navigation as it tends to be more accurate than the one showing in our car. During the drive, we realised that we had not changed back the distance unit in the Waze settings to the Uk 'mile' as they use 'km' in Cyprus. I don't know if this was before the location of the camera or after.


I'm not sure if this caused the confusion on the speed for the location where the the camera was as my husband does not speed (if I had been driving, I could honestly think fair enough, possible, mile or km). He only got his driving licence last September (so less than a year ago) while I have been driving for over 16 years, he's naturally a person that follows rules to the letter and always a careful driver who would not intentionally break the rules. He would choose to cruise even if we are in a rush to get somewhere because the speed states 20mph or 30mph and would tell me off if I drive just a little over the limit.


I'm really worried about the implication of the NIP especially seeing it's not like a normal speeding fine but a possibility of prosecution! I don't want him to loose his licence.

The notice is asking me to send details of the driver and I don't know what to do.

I would really appreciate some guidance.

Rosie
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 09:28:19 pm by RoseyMe12-34 »

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slapdash

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2024, 04:11:12 pm »
Send details of the driver.

He will then get his own nip which he must respond to.

Unfortunately it's 1mph over the course threshold. However he should get a conditional offer of fixed penalty. £100 and 3 pts.

When he gets it pay particular attention to the conditions about sending his licence details.

If he racks up 6pts in 2 years (3 was a typo) he will get his licence revoked.

Don't rely on sat nav. It may be a vaguely useful guide (as are car systems which scan signs).

It's exactly like every other "speeding fine".
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 04:29:49 pm by slapdash »

The Rookie

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2024, 04:26:26 pm »
Intent is not required for the driver to be convicted, it’s a strict liability offence and no intent is required.

What matters is whether the signs are correct, drivers are expected to look for them and not ‘blindly’ follow devices which are frequently wrong.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

RoseyMe12-34

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2024, 04:49:49 pm »
Send details of the driver.

He will then get his own nip which he must respond to.

Unfortunately it's 1mph over the course threshold. However he should get a conditional offer of fixed penalty. £100 and 3 pts.

When he gets it pay particular attention to the conditions about sending his licence details.

If he racks up 6pts in 2 years (3 was a typo) he will get his licence revoked.

Don't rely on sat nav. It may be a vaguely useful guide (as are car systems which scan signs).

It's exactly like every other "speeding fine".

Thanks, I hope that's all he gets.

RoseyMe12-34

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2024, 04:54:47 pm »
Intent is not required for the driver to be convicted, it’s a strict liability offence and no intent is required.

What matters is whether the signs are correct, drivers are expected to look for them and not ‘blindly’ follow devices which are frequently wrong.

I know  :(  That's generally what we do but for whatever reason that early morning, we missed something but like you stated, intent is not required.

I'm just trying to get some guidance on the NIP just in case I get something wrong or miss a process.
Thank you!

NewJudge

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2024, 05:12:43 pm »
Quote
I'm just trying to get some guidance on the NIP just in case I get something wrong or miss a process
.

The process is this:

- You must respond to the "Request for Driver's Details" within the 28 days allowed, providing your husband's details.
- Shortly afterwards (no more than two weeks) he should get his own NIP and accompanying Request for Driver's Details.
- He must respond to that within the 28 days allowed.
- Shortly after that (perhaps a couple of weeks) he will received a "Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (£100 and 3 points).
- He should respond to that by accepting the offer and following the instructions for payment.
- He must also submit his driving licence details even though he has previously provided them when confirming he was driving.

Two precautions you should take:

1. Take copies of anything you send back and get a free certificate of posting from the Post Office.

2. If any of the gaps between these steps seem unusually long, contact the ticket office to ensure your responses have been received. The last thing either of you wants is to end up in court because something - especially your responses to the requests for driver's details - has gone astray in the post.

RoseyMe12-34

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2024, 05:53:04 pm »
@NewJudge - a big thank you!

Thanks for a clear outline of the process, really helpful to have it laid out this way.

Appreciate!

andy_foster

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2024, 06:01:42 pm »
NIP dated today 1st May received today 1st May with Royal mail stamp post 01.05.24.

That's not true, is it?
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

ManxTom

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2024, 06:46:10 pm »
@NewJudge - a big thank you!

Thanks for a clear outline of the process, really helpful to have it laid out this way.

Appreciate!

Just to add to the "Two precautions" suggested by @NewJudge:

First, as you were not the driver the NIP/s172 request addressed to you might allow you to nominate your husband online.  Obviously if you are allowed to do that (make sure you read the instructions as to how to reply carefully) it means your reply can't go astray in the mail.

Second, when your husband receives his notice to identify himself as the driver, again read the instructions carefully as to how to reply.  Some constabularies (eg Norfolk & Suffolk) allow you to identify yourself as the driver online, but most of them still require the return via snail mail of a completed and signed form, in which case NewJudge's precautions become very relevant.

RoseyMe12-34

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2024, 09:30:50 pm »
NIP dated today 1st May received today 1st May with Royal mail stamp post 01.05.24.

That's not true, is it?

🙈🤦🏽‍♀️ Sorry, not sure why I thought it's 1st May today!! I did wonder how I got it so fast! I've updated my post.

Thank you!

RoseyMe12-34

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2024, 09:39:14 pm »
Ok, thanks @ManxTom, I will have a look at that.

I've put the notice away somewhere, can't bear to look at it again today so all actions deferred to tomorrow or perhaps the weekend, massive headache from the panic I experienced following receipt of the letter this morning but thank you all, I'm not as overwhelmed anymore.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 09:42:44 pm by RoseyMe12-34 »

BertB

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2024, 10:44:20 am »

We tend to use the speed limit showing on Waze screen whenever we use it for navigation as it tends to be more accurate than the one showing in our car. During the drive, we realised that we had not changed back the distance unit in the Waze settings to the Uk 'mile' as they use 'km' in Cyprus. I don't know if this was before the location of the camera or after.

I can't see how showing units in KM/h and following those for a speed reading would affect the offence. If anything it should have made it harder to exceed the limit.

I've put the notice away somewhere, can't bear to look at it again today so all actions deferred to tomorrow or perhaps the weekend

Do not forget, as failure to provide driver details can lead to 6 points and a large fine. Plus increased insurance premiums if found guilty. You would not be able to ask the court to sentence you for speeding instead as you were not driving. They also would not be able to prosecute you husband either as the possibility to nominate another driver would have passed and it would be too late to prosecute anyway.

ManxTom

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2024, 12:50:33 pm »

We tend to use the speed limit showing on Waze screen whenever we use it for navigation as it tends to be more accurate than the one showing in our car. During the drive, we realised that we had not changed back the distance unit in the Waze settings to the Uk 'mile' as they use 'km' in Cyprus. I don't know if this was before the location of the camera or after.

I can't see how showing units in KM/h and following those for a speed reading would affect the offence. If anything it should have made it harder to exceed the limit...

I assume that eg a 30mph limit would show as a "50" limit if their Waze app (or whatever it is) hadn't been converted back to imperial from metric?

(But I'm only guessing.  I've never used any kind of satnav and I rely on looking at road signs to know what the speed limit is.  I wouldn't rely on a device to tell me)

BigBazz45

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2024, 01:32:29 am »
Just for the sake of completeness:

50 limit and camera warning signs are both sides of the carriageway. GSV link
A slightly "busy" section, given the presence of the Diagram 872.1 signs for the impending reduction from D3M to D2M.

Camera is here - around 200m after the start of the taper for the lane drop.

The Slithy Tove

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Re: Essex Police - Notice of Intention to Prosecute
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2024, 08:23:02 am »
I've put the notice away somewhere, can't bear to look at it again today so all actions deferred to tomorrow or perhaps the weekend, massive headache from the panic I experienced following receipt of the letter this morning
Seriously, it's not the end of the world. Your reaction is entirely understandable and not criticising you for it. While it's galling at the moment, and you're full of "what ifs" and "if onlys", at the end of the day you (or your husband) will be £100 worse off and have 3 points on his licence, which on an otherwise clean license won't really make a difference on insurance.