Author Topic: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed  (Read 720 times)

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carr1514

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Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« on: September 23, 2023, 12:55:19 pm »
hello,

I received a letter from the crown office and procurator fiscal service, it says it's a conditional offer of a fixed penalty.

It states i was driving a vehicle with the coords exposed on a tyre, which i was, i was stopped by the police at the time for it. However the police chose not to
give me a fine or any points and said they could go through some sort of vehicle repair scheme ( can't remember the name they used for it sorry ), i essentially
was given a print out of the offence and i had to get it fixed within 21 days and checked off by a MOT tester and sent back to the police station.

Now i was told by the police officer at the scene that i didn't need to get an actual MOT, any mot tester mobile or not could do this as i said to him that it
wasn't my van but a hire van, any work carried out on it is normally done by a mobile mechanic, this was false information, a mobile mechanic was not able
to carry this work out as he needed an MOT testing site number which he wouldn't have.

So i wasted about 8 days of them 21 days sending that letter off to then have it sent back saying it needs an MOT testing site number, i then sent a letter
back stating that the work has been complete, i attached a job letter that shows what was fixed on the van etc and said the guy who fitted the tyre was an
mot tester, he had left his name and company but he didn't have a mot testing site number because he was a mobile mechanic.

So forward on sending that letter off and then having it sent back... i went on a holiday for a week, it was something i had booked months in advance, way before
i had been given this offence. I then come back to see this letter returned yet again to me, now with 4 days left of them 21 days... Telling me i had to
get an mot tester with a mot testing site number to check the vehicle and it had to be back to there offices within the 21 days of the offence.

So i quickly got an mot tester at a local garage ( which i had to pay ) to check it over and then sent it back off to the police, i assume they have received it
out with the 21 days ( even although the slip i got from the police that the mot tester had to fill out was dated before the 21 days) this is why they have
decided to prosecute me?

I'm also not 100% certain of the words on this letter, it states that i can pay a fine of 100 pounds as an alternative to a prosecution?

but then further down the letter it says i pay the 100 pounds, 3 points will be endorsed on my license.

Just looking for some advice here, i have 9 points on my license already from years ago ( tried to appeal speeding on a motorway )
that are due to come off soon but if i am given 3 points for this i'll lose my license.

Thanks.

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NewJudge

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2023, 02:10:31 pm »
What are the dates of the offences that led to your previous nine points?

As far as the offer goes, it is probably a "Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty". One of the conditions will be that you must not have more than eight "active" points on your licence. "Active" means imposed for an offence that took place within three years prior to the date of this one (hence my first question). If you do have nine active points you cannot accept the offer and your case will be dealt with in court, where you will face a "totting up" ban.

It might be worth asking the police why you now face a fixed penalty (or more probably prosecution) when they said you would be OK if you had the tyre fixed.

carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2023, 02:26:49 pm »
Hello,

the date of the previous offence was 21/07/2019 ( 6 points ).

On the same date as this offence i am posting about, i was stopped by the police for speeding, (39 in a 30) i just took the 3 points and 100 pound for that which is fine. So now i am on 9 points, so at the same time they gave me a speeding ticket and also told me to get my tyre fixed but told me i'd not be prosecuted for the tyre if i got it fixed within 21 days.

I guess i should write to the police station and ask them why i am being prosecuted for this?

Thanks.

666

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2023, 03:21:35 pm »
The six points from 2019 have expired. Although they stay on your record for four years, they are only 'active' for three.

carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2023, 03:27:43 pm »
Ideally i don't want 3 points for the offence of a bald tyre, my insurance premiums are high enough as is.

I mean do i have a case here? the police told me they would prosecute me if it was fixed within 21 days, i've found what i was given. It was a Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme (VDRS), is this maybe an automatic thing because they wouldn't have received the letter back within 21 days but the work was carried out and fixed within the 21 days? I can hardly be to blame for the need to send multiple letters to the police to clarify information that i was given in error at the scene?

Thanks.

666

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2023, 04:02:55 pm »
What does the form you were given say about timescales? I suspect the 21 days were to have it fixed AND reported to the police.

carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2023, 04:24:41 pm »
Yes the original VREC form does say have it fixed and sent back to the police within 21 days.

However again, because it had to be sent to a police station 40 miles from me ( not my local police station ) there would of been like 7-8 days where it was spent in the back of a van or at a sorting depot in transit.

I also lost a week of that due to going on holiday, not realising that the form would be sent back to me a second time.

I'm thinking my best course of action is to contact the police station and ask why I am being prosecuted for this. I've all the evidence to show it was fixed within 24 hours of being issued the VREC, it had been signed off by a valid MOT tester ( just didn't have a test site number ), was sent away multiple times ( i have receipts from the post office for this ), i've also a witness who was in the car with me when i was pulled over by the police who can provide a written statement that the police stated i'd not be prosecuted if this was fixed within 21 days and that I didn't need to take this to an MOT site and that a mobile mechanic who fixes the tyre can sign this off for me.

I'm unsure if the police who stopped me had a body cam to reinforce what I am saying, so might just be my word against theres on this


carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2023, 01:56:50 am »
Ok heard back from the police, the reason they have referred me to courts is that the VRECH form was received completed after the 21 days, the actual form was signed and dated before the 21 days but the actual form never got back to them until after the 21 days, due to it being sent back and fourth 3 times due to incorrect information ( mainly due to being told incorrect information by the police officer) and again by the police station who told me in writing that I could provide supporting evidence ( which I did, the job form showing a new tyre replacement, signed by the mechanic who fitted it) unsure what more evidence theyíd need. Either way they declined the supporting evidence and demanded a signed vrech form from a mot tester at a mot testing site with a testing site number.

My question is if I let this go to court will they even acknowledge the vrech form issued or are they there simply to say ďdid you have a bald tyre or notĒ, will they take into account that I actually made an effort to fill this vrech form out, get the vehicle fixed and follow the rules given to me back the police officer at the scene?

I mean if I accept this condition I get 3 points regardless, if I go to court I get 3 points but up to a 5k fine or potentially get let off Scott free

Whatís the likely hood of me getting no points and no fine if I proceed with court.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 01:58:44 am by carr1514 »

Foxy01

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2023, 07:43:24 am »
Once you have had the defect rectified you should take the vehicle to an MOT test station that can test that class of vehicle. There the tester should check the defect has been rectified and sign off the form (used to be a yellow slip). It should then be stamped with the MOT station stamp. Originally all MOT stations had a stamp to authenticate the certificates. This stopped being the case in 2006 when the computerised system was brought in, so a lot probably don't have an embossing stamp. Current guidance says to 'endorse' the form with a rubber stamp with business name/phone number and to include the VTS (Vehicle testing station)number.
VDRS scheme
If your MOT tester genuinely carries out tests he would need to use a VTS and carry out at least one MOT at least every three months to keep his licence valid. So why did he not have a test station number where he carries out those tests?

If you go to court it would seem you did not comply with the requirements, irrespective of any time/postal issues?

carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2023, 09:28:45 am »
Thanks for getting back to me, he told me he didnít have a testing station number because when he does MOTís itís done off site, at another location and he didnít know the station number off the top off his head, he is a mechanic that comes to our depot every week to do odd repair jobs on vans, he signed his name and company etc, but wasnít able to sign the testing site number.

What I donít understand is, why was I given false information at the scene by the officer.

Why when originally sending this did I receive a letter back saying if I could send supporting documentation to prove the defect has been rectified? Why the job form, signed by the mechanic with his company logo on it, my signature and the vans reg isnít proof.

So youíre saying itíll look like I couldnít be bothered to get the issue fixed to a court?

BertB

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2023, 10:41:53 am »
The issue seem to revolve around you wasting time arguing the toss with the Police over whether you needed to take it to an MOT testing station or not. Regardless of what the Police Officer told you that you could do, what did the form say to do?

The terms of compliance on the VDR form seems to be

1. Get it fixed
2. Take the vehicle and the form to an MOT garage for examination and have the work certified on the form by an examiner
3. Send the form back to the relevant constabulary.

With that, I think you are going to have difficulty arguing in a court that an undocumented conversation with an Officer trumps that of a process defined on an official document. It doesn't specifically mention mobile testers being barred, but without his testing station number how are they to know that Dave down the pub who occasionally fixes cars didn't sign it for you?

666

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2023, 04:14:05 pm »

What I donít understand is, why was I given false information at the scene by the officer.

Human error?

carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2023, 06:25:14 pm »
I fully agree, however Iím not a car mechanic.. how am I supposed to know what an MOT testing station number is, all the vrec says is to take it to a certified MOT tester to have the car checked. which I did. Not my fault the tester didnít have the mot testing station number, he signed it with his name and the business name.

The van wasnít mine, infact the same night I was stopped by the police the van was collected back by the hire company and I never drove it ever again. I had to jumps through hoops to get the van back from the hire company to take it to a local mechanic to get the vrec form signed.

The police were fully aware it was a hire van and that all work on it must be done through an approved mechanic by the hire company, hence why he said that a mobile mechanic CAN sign it off.

I agree an undocumented conversation would not hold up in court hence why a lot of police now a days are forced to wear bodycams for this very reason.

Either way Iím going to have to go to court anyway as 3 more points on my license Iíll lose my job so fun times.

NewJudge

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2023, 07:48:23 pm »
Quote
Either way Iím going to have to go to court anyway as 3 more points on my license Iíll lose my job so fun times.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. You only have three active points at present, so you do not face a totting up ban. Unless the court finds "Special Reasons" not to endorse your licence (and those reasons must be to do with the offence itself rather than your personal circumstances) they must impose three points. Are you hoping to persuade them that you seemingly being misled by the officer amounts to "Special Reasons"?

carr1514

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Re: Coditional offer of a fixed penalty for a cord exposed
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2023, 02:10:09 pm »
Yes I currently have 3 active points but for insurance purposes I have 6, if I get another 3 I'll have 9, I'll lose my job. My job requires a clean license ( no more than 6 points ) for insurance, I am just scraping by having 6 points, anymore and I won't be able to drive.

So yes I'll need to go to court as I face loosing employment, won't be able to get a delivery driver job anywhere with 9 points.