Author Topic: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of another 3 points!  (Read 2209 times)

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Hi All

With 9 points on my licence already - one in March '23 - and then two back to back last year ('24) in March (1 day apart) on the same stretch of road all around 44mph in a 40 zone as well as a speed awareness course already taken in 2022! I now have another NIP - the offence was 51 in a 40.

As before with all other incidents the last one took place fairly early in the morning (430am) on an empty dual carriageway - I suspect the time of day and the type of road probably make no difference.

The speed limit sign seems like it was clearly marked as being 40 on both sides of the part of the road I was on! Weather was fine. So probably don't have an excuse with either of those.

There was no specific "emergency situations".

All details on the NIP are correct. The camera calibration details seem to be in order too.

The camera was a fixed camera in the road.

I have a job that is not easy to get to - its about 15 miles from where I live - no other easy way there other than by road (car) and I am the only bread winner in the house - my husband having had a stroke 3 years ago.

I really do try to watch my speed and it is very frustrating this keep happening - I appreciate that too is no excuse.

Should I go to court and claim "hardship" or is there something else I should do?

Can't really afford a lawyer to represent me. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

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I really do try to watch my speed and it is very frustrating this keep happening - I appreciate that too is no excuse.
Nothing you've said thus far indicates any defence.

I have a job that is not easy to get to - its about 15 miles from where I live - no other easy way there other than by road (car) and I am the only bread winner in the house - my husband having had a stroke 3 years ago.

Should I go to court and claim "hardship" or is there something else I should do?

Can't really afford a lawyer to represent me. 
It seems you will be a 'totter' (That is 12 points within 3 years, based of the date of the offences).

The matter cannot be dealt with by way of fixed penalty - it will head to court.

At this time you will the opportunity to submit an 'Exceptional Hardship' plea.  You seem to have some valid points to raise to reduce the 6 months ban (potentially to none).

Read the following court guidance carefully:
Quote
When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:
It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence.

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable.

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.

So you need to demonstrate that the hardship you and/or others will suffer is over and above that would be suffered by other drivers. When explaining to the court that you will lose your job (if true), firstly you will need to present evidence of that (e.g. a letter from your employer) and then go on to explain why alternative employment, not requiring you to drive, is not possible. You will also need to explain why you think the consequences of a ban are "exceptional" (bearing in mind the above guidance). Bear in mind that you will have had some time to investigate such possibilities and the court will expect you to have investigated the possibility thoroughly.

Feel free to post further with any ideas and information for feedback.  You strictly don't need legal representation - in some ways the impact coming directly from you may be in your favour.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2025, 06:43:52 pm by JustLoveCars »

Thank you very much for your advice.

So just to clarify - I should theoretically now fill in the NIP saying I was the driver and see what they come back with - when they do, is it at that point that I should opt for a court hearing because I will automatically become a "totter" - or should I take the penalty and THEN go to court AFTER?

What was the date of the offence that resulted in the SAC in 2022? Was it more or less than 3 years before the date of the current offence?

Assuming that they were within 3 years, then you should not be offered a course for this offence.

If you are offered a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, the "conditional" part of the offer is that it is conditional on you not being liable to tot up - so if you go through the motions of "accepting" the offer, it will be voided when they check. Whether you "should" do that or not would seem to depend on what advantage (or disadvantage) you are seeking to gain by doing so.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

So just to clarify - I should theoretically now fill in the NIP saying I was the driver
Not theoretically, you have to name the driver.  Failing to do so will see a separate charge carrying 6 points...

...and see what they come back with - when they do, is it at that point that I should opt for a court hearing because I will automatically become a "totter" - or should I take the penalty and THEN go to court AFTER?
If they're awake then they should progress the matter straight to the court route for which you will need to attend to submit the EH plea.

What was the date of the offence that resulted in the SAC in 2022? Was it more or less than 3 years before the date of the current offence?

Assuming that they were within 3 years, then you should not be offered a course for this offence.

If you are offered a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, the "conditional" part of the offer is that it is conditional on you not being liable to tot up - so if you go through the motions of "accepting" the offer, it will be voided when they check. Whether you "should" do that or not would seem to depend on what advantage (or disadvantage) you are seeking to gain by doing so.

I need to check on the dates - but even though the letter says I might be offered the course - I doubt it given the offences that took place after!

So just to clarify - I should theoretically now fill in the NIP saying I was the driver
Not theoretically, you have to name the driver.  Failing to do so will see a separate charge carrying 6 points...

...and see what they come back with - when they do, is it at that point that I should opt for a court hearing because I will automatically become a "totter" - or should I take the penalty and THEN go to court AFTER?
If they're awake then they should progress the matter straight to the court route for which you will need to attend to submit the EH plea.

I understand better now - thank you for your very detailed and patient explanation. I am most grateful.

but even though the letter says I might be offered the course - I doubt it given the offences that took place after!

Your driving history is not a factor. It is based upon qualifying Speed and >3yrs between offence dates for which the last course was taken. Remember, it is date of offence, not date you completed the course. Your online licence record should tell you what this is if you cannot remember.

but even though the letter says I might be offered the course - I doubt it given the offences that took place after!

Your driving history is not a factor. It is based upon qualifying Speed and >3yrs between offence dates for which the last course was taken. Remember, it is date of offence, not date you completed the course. Your online licence record should tell you what this is if you cannot remember.

The online licence record doesn't contain details of offence dates for speed awareness courses, does it?

Mine certainly doesn't.

The online licence record doesn't contain details of offence dates for speed awareness courses, does it?

Mine certainly doesn't.

No it certainly won't. Brain fart.

As in I had one. Not calling you a Brain fart obviously.
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Not helpful for dealing with this now, but helpful for the future, does your car have a speed limiter button?  If you set that for the speed limit, you will never be caught again.

Not helpful for dealing with this now, but helpful for the future, does your car have a speed limiter button?  If you set that for the speed limit, you will never be caught again.

Never say never.
The speed limiter fitted to my car (VW) will allow you to exceed the set limit if you are driving down a hill. It does give a audio warning if this happens but I imagine this could be missed if you have loud music playing of a couple of talkative or shouting kids in the car.
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As an aside, my Volvo (old man's car) DOES control the speed when travelling downhill when set to Speed Limiter.

Not helpful for dealing with this now, but helpful for the future, does your car have a speed limiter button?  If you set that for the speed limit, you will never be caught again.

Are you sure about that?

If you know enough to set the limiter in the first place, surely it's better to drive within that limit and keep a lookout for changes rather relying on technology that can fail?

Saying "My speed limiter failed" is no defence to a speeding charge