3. Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
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Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
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Hi there everyone, hope someone can help me. I live in England.I recently got a letter about a speeding infringement. I was going 80mph on a motorway, in a small van (the limit for vans is 60 mph- which I didn't know) So I got a letter about that. Then I was filmed by a member of the public using my mobile phone to check messages whilst stationary at traffic lights, so two days later I received a letter about that with a notice to prosecute. I currently have 9pts on my license, If I get 3 points for the speeding offence and 6 pts for the use of the phone that will put me on 18 pts. I rely on my license for both my jobs,. I teach apprenticeships and need my vehicle to carry out on site assessments, and I work as a carpenter, so need the van to get to work sites, carrying tools and materials. If I loose my license I would loose both my jobs and probably default on my mortgage, therefore loosing my home as well. I have spoken to a solicitor I found online, she says she thinks she can it sorted before it goes to court, and due to the hardship I will incur if I loose my license, she thinks she can get me off with an increased fine and no ban, or a very small ban. She quoted me £2500 for this. My primary concern is not loosing my license, I don't have a lot of money but I will find it if it means not loosing my license. I want to know if the outcome the solicitor has predicted is correct/likely and if there is anyway of me reducing my costs. Hope you can help.

Thanks,

Leigh,
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Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
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Quote
I have spoken to a solicitor I found online, she says she thinks she can it sorted before it goes to court, and due to the hardship I will incur if I loose my license, she thinks she can get me off with an increased fine and no ban, or a very small ban.

I don't know how she thinks she can have it sorted before it goes to court. The police are unlikely to discontinue either of the charges at her request and If you reach 12 points the court has, by law, to impose a six month ban unless "Exceptional Hardship" (EH) can be shown. There is no possibility of trading off a higher fine for a reduced ban or no ban entirely. The fine and points are imposed and then you will be asked if you wish to make an EH argument. The fine is not influenced by the result of that argument.

Any hardship you or others might suffer must be "exceptional" - that is over and above that which any driver would suffer if banned. Hardship visited on others is likely to carry more weight. Anybody who is banned will suffer hardship of some sort. That's the punishment element of the ban. Similarly anybody who needs to drive either to get to or perform their work will suffer hardship so losing your job, by itself, is not exceptional. The court will also expect you to have explored alternatives if you cannot drive, such as seeking different employment which does not involve driving. The guidance used when the court considers and EH argument is here:

When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:

It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence.

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable.

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.

You should note particularly the parts I have highlighted.

You should also realise that any solicitor you hire will expect payment whether they are successful or not.

You have not mentioned much about the offences themselves. I take it you are not planning to challenge either of them?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 12:47:01 pm by NewJudge »
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Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
« Reply #2 on: »
In addition to the points NJ has already addressed.

Quote from: leigh1982 on November 08, 2024, 12:20:00 pm
Hi there everyone, hope someone can help me. I live in England.I recently got a letter about a speeding infringement. I was going 80mph on a motorway, in a small van (the limit for vans is 60 mph- which I didn't know)

I didn't know that either. In fact nobody can know that, because it's not true.
On ordinary dual carriageways (not motorways) the class speed limit for goods vehicles is 60, but on motorways the class limit for goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes is 70.

It would be very helpful to have both charges heard together - regardless of whether or not you manage to avoid a totting up ban.
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Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
« Reply #3 on: »
as Andy says the Van limit on a motorway is 70 so you would have got a letter for excess speed (above 70)
I would hazard a guess you have been/will be offered an awareness course for that infringement as enforcement usually starts at 79mph
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Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
« Reply #4 on: »
How much you are prepared to pay will depend on your own personal financial position but the £2,500 figure is quite honestly, outrageous.

Secondly, do bear in mind that if you do make an EH application it is not just a question of standing up and convincing the Bench of your case.  You will have to give evidence under oath and face full cross-examination of your evidence by an experienced prosecutor in open Court.

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Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
« Reply #5 on: »
we haven't seen ANY of the OPs paperwork yet so don't ACTUALLY know what they are accused of.

what is the "letter" from the police??
we're they actually on a motorway or a dual carriageway?? they have already got things wrong.
this makes a difference to what they will be offered from plod.
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Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
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  3. Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.