Author Topic: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London  (Read 1366 times)

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Hello,

Hope you are all ok.

Today I received a Parking Charge Notice from UKCPM with reason "No Parking Outside Of A Designated Area" for the housing estate where I live.


The driver came to visit me and drop off some food and parked in the marked 'Drop Off Zone' bay outside my home.
The housing association has a sign up stating "30 minutes parking for loading and unloading only".
I don't remember how long the driver spent inside my home.

I am the registered keeper.

1. The Parking Charge Letter;
Page 1


There are 3 different times; letter says 21:59, top photo says 21:32:46 and bottom photo says 21:42:50.

Page 2


2. The 'Drop Off Zone' outside my home the driver parked in;


3. Housing Association notice for 'loading/unloading';


4. CPM Housing Estate Signage;



Any advice/help against this would be great.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 09:41:07 pm by LondonLady »

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #1 on: »
No contract was formed as the Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not state a period of parking which also means that the Keeper cannot be liable for the charge as long as the drivers identity is revealed, inadvertently or otherwise.

Additionally, you have shown the sign that states that 30 minutes is allowed for loading and unloading. That contradicts anything in the contractual signs.

As the driver was visiting/loading/unloading you, the tenant/leaseholder, what does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking and displaying permits? What it doesn't say about parking is equally important.

This can be fought all the way to court if necessary. However, I suggest you approach "Hyde" who I presume are something to do with the landlord or management company, as it is likely they are the party who have contracted CPM and can get the PCN cancelled. That is known as Plan A.

Any appeals are going to be unsuccessful which is why, if Plan A does not work, it will end up as a court claim.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #2 on: »
No contract was formed as the Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not state a period of parking which also means that the Keeper cannot be liable for the charge as long as the drivers identity is revealed, inadvertently or otherwise.

Additionally, you have shown the sign that states that 30 minutes is allowed for loading and unloading. That contradicts anything in the contractual signs.

As the driver was visiting/loading/unloading you, the tenant/leaseholder, what does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking and displaying permits? What it doesn't say about parking is equally important.

This can be fought all the way to court if necessary. However, I suggest you approach "Hyde" who I presume are something to do with the landlord or management company, as it is likely they are the party who have contracted CPM and can get the PCN cancelled. That is known as Plan A.

Any appeals are going to be unsuccessful which is why, if Plan A does not work, it will end up as a court claim.
Thank you for your reply and reassurance.

On the estate there are a couple of those 'drop off' bays and I think any nearby noticeboards have that 30 minute parking sign.

All my tenancy agreement says about parking is not to park 'indiscriminately' so as to cause a nuisance, cause obstruction, use the estate roads for repairs or park un-taxed/roadworthy vehicles;


Hyde Housing is the landowner/landlord and apparently they contracted UKCPM for free, to manage the estate parking and they keep parking permit revenues in return for a 'donation' to Hyde who operate as a not-for-profit outfit (hardly true).
Only problem with approaching Hyde is that they specialise in incompetence and I know the sequence will be something like; what sign allowing 30 mins parking? - send them the picture - response we're not aware of that - after weeks of chasing them they'll just either say; that doesn't exist, whoever arranged/agreed that has left or it's been changed and should have been removed.
I will approach the caretaker who has been here for years and ask about it - fingers crossed for Plan A.

While I feel this very wrong the thought of court makes me anxious as I'm not in the best in healthy/mobile. Would it be the keeper/driver or both that would need to go to the court case?

Thanks




Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
top photo says 21:32:46 and bottom photo says 21:42:50.
They are both 21:32, as far as I can see, suggesting they were taken just 4 seconds apart.

If you log onto the PCM online portal, are any other photos available? If so, what time stamps do these show?

There is persuasive case law on this point - if the only photos they have are taken 4 seconds apart, then as b789 says they have not stated the period of parking (required for keeper liability), but further, more basically, their evidence would not seem to show that any alleged contract has been breached if they only have 2 photos taken 4 seconds apart.

Quote
Would it be the keeper/driver or both that would need to go to the court case?
Quote
The keeper unless you identify the driver (doing so would mean PCM pursue them instead) - doing this would reduce the number of defence arguments to be made, as they couldn't use the arguments around keeper liability, but there would still seem to be a defence there.

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #4 on: »
Even if this were to ever escalate into a court claim, I seriously doubt it would ever reach a hearing. Even if it ever did, it is nothing other than be fearful of. Far too many people have little understanding of the civil court system (as opposed to the criminal system). The County Court is the ultimate dispute resolution service.

Just to try and allay your fears, here is a short video that explains what happens in a hearing for a debt dispute in court:

https://youtu.be/n93eoaxhzpU?feature=shared

Your tenancy agreement is a legal contract, and you have supremacy of contract over the land where you reside and park. From what you have shown us there is no clause in your tenancy that introduces UKCPM, requires you to display a permit, or imposes time restrictions like "30 minutes free." That means UKCPM has no legal basis to issue parking charges — they’re not a party to your contract, and they cannot unilaterally impose new terms.

Unless Hyde Housing has formally varied your lease in accordance with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, particularly Section 37 (which requires consultation and a Tribunal), no new contractual obligations can be imposed — especially not by a third party like UKCPM.

What UKCPM are doing amounts to issuing speculative invoices for alleged breaches of a contract you never entered into. Their “contract” signage has no effect on tenants who already have a lease that governs their rights to use the estate, including parking areas. UKCPM’s actions are legally baseless where there is no agreement with you, and they have no right to override your lease.

You should write to Hyde Housing and make it crystal clear that:

• You do not accept UKCPM's authority, as it contradicts your tenancy rights;
• Hyde is vicariously liable for the actions of UKCPM, their appointed agent;
• If you suffer loss, distress, or legal escalation due to UKCPM’s unlawful actions, you will hold Hyde and UKCPM jointly and severally liable.

Let them know that Hyde’s failure to control or properly instruct their agents could result in a formal complaint to the Housing Ombudsman and potential legal action for breach of your tenancy rights and unlawful interference with quiet enjoyment.

Also, gather evidence:

• Take a photo of any “30 minutes free parking” sign to show UKCPM’s own signage contradicts their claim;
• Speak to the caretaker, as planned, to confirm the history and intended use of the drop-off bays.

You have every right to challenge this. Your lease comes first, and neither UKCPM nor Hyde can rewrite it without following proper legal procedures.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote
top photo says 21:32:46 and bottom photo says 21:42:50.
They are both 21:32, as far as I can see, suggesting they were taken just 4 seconds apart.

If you log onto the PCM online portal, are any other photos available? If so, what time stamps do these show?

There is persuasive case law on this point - if the only photos they have are taken 4 seconds apart, then as b789 says they have not stated the period of parking (required for keeper liability), but further, more basically, their evidence would not seem to show that any alleged contract has been breached if they only have 2 photos taken 4 seconds apart.

Quote
Would it be the keeper/driver or both that would need to go to the court case?
Quote
The keeper unless you identify the driver (doing so would mean PCM pursue them instead) - doing this would reduce the number of defence arguments to be made, as they couldn't use the arguments around keeper liability, but there would still seem to be a defence there.
Thank you for your reply.

The only place I see to login is to 'pay a charge' which takes me to www.paymyticket.co.uk and for my details there are 10 pictures with the following date/times; (duplicates)

2025-04-06 21:32:46 (front of car - bit fuzzy)
2025-04-06 21:33:12 (left rear of car)
2025-04-06 21:33:18 (dash through windscreen)
2025-04-06 21:36:42 (picture of CPM sign on a property away from where the car was parked - there are 2 signs within 10m of that bay)
2025-04-06 21:32:50 (like pic 1)
2025-04-06 21:32:51 (like pic 1)
2025-04-06 21:32:52 (like pic 1 - clear)
2025-04-06 21:32:53 (like pic 1)
2025-04-06 21:33:09 (left rear of car - fuzzy)
2025-04-06 21:33:10 (left rear of car)

Earliest car pic time: 2025-04-06 21:32:46 (front of car - bit fuzzy)
Latest car pic time: 2025-04-06 21:33:18 (dash through windscreen)
Latest pic time: 2025-04-06 21:36:42 (picture of CPM sign on a property away from car location)

Car observed for total of: 32 seconds (21:33:18 - 21:32:46)

Do you need to see the pictures?

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #6 on: »
...Also, gather evidence:

• Take a photo of any “30 minutes free parking” sign to show UKCPM’s own signage contradicts their claim;
• Speak to the caretaker, as planned, to confirm the history and intended use of the drop-off bays.

You have every right to challenge this. Your lease comes first, and neither UKCPM nor Hyde can rewrite it without following proper legal procedures.
Thank you, that's reassured me.

Previously there was a company called Wing doing parking on the estate and I think they went back to when clamping was still allowed.

I will ask some other residents I know what their leases say and if there have been any amendments as they are on top of all things landlord.

I will gather evidence & speak to the caretaker and report back.

Thanks you  :)

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #7 on: »
Even
than

Also, gather evidence:

• Take a photo of any “30 minutes free parking” sign to show UKCPM’s own signage contradicts their claim;
• Speak to the caretaker, as planned, to confirm the history and intended use of the drop-off bays.

You have every right to challenge this. Your lease comes first, and neither UKCPM nor Hyde can rewrite it without following proper legal procedures.
Hello,

1. There is 1 other of these "drop off bay" on the housing estate but there are no signs near it about its use.
On a nearby wall there is the sign below which looks like a parking sign I remember seeing on a street;



2. I spoke with the caretaker and he doesn't remember when the '30 mins loading/unloading' thing started or what the current status is. To be fair he has been off with medical issues so not up to speed with all changes.
He thinks it was introduced when the last parking firm Wing was here and it was something the Property Manager introduced when the PM manager existed.
Now there is something called a neighbourhood officer and he said he will ask when he sees them.


3. Today I notice the '30 min unloading' sign has dissapeared from the notice board;


I will ask the caretaker for an update when I see him.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 11:12:03 am by LondonLady »

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #8 on: »
OP, let's clear up some issues pl:

Is the Notice to Keeper addressed to you by name;

It refers to 'your vehicle', not one belonging to a third party, the 'driver'. Pl explain;

Was the car displaying a permit?

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #9 on: »
OP, let's clear up some issues pl:

Is the Notice to Keeper addressed to you by name;
** The 'Penalty charge notice' is addressed to me at my home next to the 'loading/unloading bay' in the photo which the driver parked in.

It refers to 'your vehicle', not one belonging to a third party, the 'driver'. Pl explain;
** What do you mean by third party?
Yes, I am the registered keeper/owner and I let the driver use it as they help me with various things.

Was the car displaying a permit?
** No it doesn't have a permit as it isn't parked on the estate.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 12:04:50 pm by LondonLady »

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #10 on: »
Even if this were to ever escalate into a court claim, I seriously doubt it would ever reach a hearing. Even if it ever did, it is nothing other than be fearful of. Far too many people have little understanding of the civil court system (as opposed to the criminal system). The County Court is the ultimate dispute resolution service.

I have an update.
So the sign about 'loading/unloading' parking has been put back up but now it says it is just for 15 minutes;


I managed to ask the caretaker about this and he said that after our initial conversation about this bay, he contacted UKCPM about it and they told him that its incorrect and they would get back to him. So he took the sign down.
Now UKCPM have got back to him stating it should just be 15 minutes for loading/unloading in this bay outside my block and therefore the new sign.
He also said the Neighborhood Officer thinks it should still be 30 minutes but until he agrees something the 15mins sign stays.

Today I received a UKCPM 'FINAL CHANCE BEFORE ACTION' letter dated 25th April 2025;
Page 1


Page 2



There is now an 'issued time' of 12:03 in the 'Parking Charge Details' box on the letter which wasn't on the first letter - I don't know if this is relevant or not.
Shouldn't the issued date be the same as the date on the pictures they are showing on the letters?

Can you advise if I should do anything now?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2025, 03:11:55 pm by LondonLady »

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #11 on: »
Interesting that they have a different timestamp for their latest letter. I think it is time to set the DVLA on to them.

Here’s how to make a DVLA complaint:

• Go to: https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/complaints
• Select: “Making a complaint or compliment about the Vehicles service you have received”
• Enter your personal details, contact details, and vehicle details
• Use the text box to summarise your complaint or insert a covering note
• You will then be able to upload a file (up to 19.5 MB) — this can be your full complaint or supporting evidence
That’s it.

The DVLA is required to record, investigate and respond to every complaint about a private parking company. If everyone who encounters a breach took the time to submit a complaint, we might finally see the DVLA take meaningful action—whether that means curtailing or removing KADOE access altogether.

For the text part of the complaint the webform could use the following:

Quote
I am submitting a formal complaint against UK Car Park Management Ltd (UKCPM), a IPC AOS member with DVLA KADOE access, for breaching the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) after obtaining my personal data.

While the Operator may have had reasonable cause at the time of their KADOE request, their subsequent misuse of my data—through conduct that contravenes the PPSCoP—renders that use unlawful. The PPSCoP forms an integral part of the DVLA’s governance framework for data access by private parking firms. Continued access is conditional on compliance.

The DVLA, as data controller, is obliged under UK GDPR and the Data Protection Act 2018 to investigate and take enforcement action when data is misused following release. This complaint is not about whether the data was obtained lawfully at the outset, but whether its subsequent use breached the terms under which it was provided.

I have prepared a supporting statement setting out the nature of the breach and the Operator’s actions, and I request a full investigation into this matter. I have attached the supporting document.

Please acknowledge receipt and confirm the reference number for this complaint.

Then you could upload the following as a PDF file for the formal complaint itself:

Quote
SUPPORTING STATEMENT

Complaint to DVLA – Breach of KADOE Contract and PPSCoP

Operator name: UK Car Park Management Ltd (UKCPM)
Date of PCN issue: 6 April 2025
Vehicle registration: [INSERT VRM]

I am submitting this complaint to report a misuse of my personal data by UKCPM, who obtained my keeper details from the DVLA under the KADOE (Keeper At Date Of Event) contract.

Although the parking company may have had reasonable cause to request my data initially, the way they have used that data afterwards amounts to unlawful processing. This is because they have acted in breach of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), which is a mandatory requirement for access to DVLA keeper data.

The KADOE contract makes clear that keeper data may only be used to pursue an unpaid parking charge in line with the Code of Practice. If a parking company fails to comply with the PPSCoP after receiving DVLA data, their use of that data becomes unlawful, as they are no longer using it for a permitted purpose.

In this case, UKCPM has breached the PPSCoP in the following ways:

• The Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to specify a required period of parking, in breach of Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The evidence available shows only that the car was present for approximately 32 seconds, which is not sufficient to establish any contract was formed or breached.
• The PCN and subsequent Final Warning Letter issued by UKCPM contain inconsistent timestamps, raising concerns about the accuracy and integrity of the data used to justify the charge. This misrepresentation further undermines the lawfulness of the data use.
• At the time of the incident, the on-site signage was contradictory and unclear. Hyde Housing displayed a notice stating 30 minutes was allowed for loading/unloading, whereas UKCPM now claim the limit is 15 minutes. The signs were recently changed following a complaint to the estate caretaker, who confirmed UKCPM’s own signage had previously allowed 30 minutes. The driver was using the marked “drop off” zone outside a resident’s home for its intended purpose, under existing estate rules.
• The resident’s tenancy agreement contains no clause that authorises UKCPM to enforce parking, nor any requirement to display a permit or comply with a 15-minute restriction. This means any alleged contract imposed by UKCPM signage is legally baseless, and any charge based on such signage is unjustified.

These are not minor breaches. They show a disregard for the PPSCoP and the governing principles that must be followed when processing keeper data. UKCPM has demonstrated poor compliance and misused the data they obtained from the DVLA.
The DVLA remains the Data Controller for the data it releases under KADOE, and is therefore responsible for ensuring that personal data is not misused by third parties. I therefore ask the DVLA to investigate and take appropriate action against UKCPM.

This may include:

• Confirming that a breach has occurred
• Taking enforcement action against the operator
•Suspending or terminating their KADOE access if warranted

I have attached relevant supporting material with this statement. Please confirm receipt and provide a reference for this complaint. I am also happy to provide further information if required.

Name: [INSERT YOUR NAME]
Date: [INSERT DATE]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #12 on: »
Interesting that they have a different timestamp for their latest letter. I think it is time to set the DVLA on to them.

Here’s how to make a DVLA complaint:

• Go to: https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/complaints
• Select: “Making a complaint or compliment about the Vehicles service you have received”
• Enter your personal details, contact details, and vehicle details
• Use the text box to summarise your complaint or insert a covering note
• You will then be able to upload a file (up to 19.5 MB) — this can be your full complaint or supporting evidence
That’s it.
...

I've done that and Thank you for your detailled instructions.

Yesterday I received a letter from 'Debt Recovery Plus' dated 13/05/2025 stating I need to pay by 27/05/2025;

Page 1;


Page 2;



Please what do I need to do with/reply to this? The 27th is just 5 days away now.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2025, 03:05:42 pm by LondonLady »

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #13 on: »
DRP and any other debt recovery company are powerless to actually do anything and can be safely ignored. Any deadlines they mention are irrelevant.

Never, ever enter int communication with a useless and powerless debt collector. All they can do is try to persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Ignore them. We don't need to know about their useless letters. Shred them and use them as hamster bedding if necessary.

So... just ignore that letter and any others you receive from DRP or any other debt collector.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #14 on: »
DRP and any other debt recovery company are powerless to actually do anything and can be safely ignored. Any deadlines they mention are irrelevant.

Never, ever enter int communication with a useless and powerless debt collector. All they can do is try to persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Ignore them. We don't need to know about their useless letters. Shred them and use them as hamster bedding if necessary.

So... just ignore that letter and any others you receive from DRP or any other debt collector.
Thank you for making me chuckle  ;D - no hamster and I will ignore further but post back should something different arrive.