Author Topic: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.  (Read 83 times)

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hamag

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PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« on: December 18, 2024, 10:06:46 am »
Hi,

I am helping a friend who got the attached PCN.
This is in a large complex car park (Cinema/Gym/restaurants/etc) which is free for 5 hours.
She has have been going there for years.
According to google streetview, they used to be managed by UKPC but it is now by PCM.

The car was parked at night, and on the closer side of the yellow dividers (on the fuel station side). At first she assumed they treat these two sides differently to the rest of the car park and hence was issues the PCN, but the signs seems to be the same throughout the car park.
She has been parking there for many years, but always on the side closer to the cinema. see the attached image.

The car was parked approximately where the Silver VW is in this link:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/weBvrbKMvpviUckM7

Another point is that she only got the PCN by post on the 17 December. The PCN was issued on 1/11/20214. Date of notice given: 12/12/2024.

The car is a leased car in her name. The PCN was address to her home address.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 10:17:52 am by hamag »

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DWMB2

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Re: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2024, 10:11:22 am »
You start by saying you're helping a friend, then go on to talk in the first person... "I only got the PCN" etc. This is rather confusing. Ideally your friend should post directly. Alternatively, be clear who's who.

Another point is that I only got the PCN by post on the 17 December. The PCN was issued on 1/11/20214. Date of notice given: 12/12/2024.
What is your (or the PCN recipient's) relationship to the vehicle? The notice says it is a "Notice to driver/hirer" - is this a leased/financed vehicle?

hamag

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Re: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2024, 10:18:26 am »
Apologies for the confusion. I have fixed it now.

DWMB2

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Re: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2024, 10:19:36 am »
Did she receive anything else other than the PCN document?

hamag

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Re: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2024, 10:20:59 am »
No, just the PCN letter which I attached to the Original post.



hamag

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Re: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2024, 10:23:25 am »
The friend who got the PCN read online that they apparently have to issue the PCN within 2 weeks or something like that?
is that correct?
or does it depend on the company and how they operate and which body they are a member of?


DWMB2

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Re: PCN from PCM - I assumed it was free for 5 hours.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2024, 10:35:11 am »
Quote
The friend who got the PCN read online that they apparently have to issue the PCN within 2 weeks or something like that?
Not quite. That is only true in cases where the recipient of the PCN is the registered keeper of the vehicle, which your friend is not.

A quick overview: Parking charges are based on contract law, by parking, drivers enter a contract in which they agree to park in exchange for certain terms, with a £100 charge falling due if they breach these terms. Ordinarily, the driver is the one liable as the person who entered the contract, but the parking company don't know who that is. There is legislation called Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (there is a link to it in my signature underneath this post), which allows parking companies to recover unpaid charges from either the registered keeper, or the hirer, if certain conditions are met.

For your friend to be held liable as the hirer, the conditions in paragraphs 13 and 14 must be met. If you read these, you'll see that one of the conditions is that PCM provide some additional documents alongside their parking charge notice. You have confirmed they have not. On this basis, your friend could appeal along the lines of the below:

Dear sirs,

I have received your Notice to Hirer [(PCN number)] for Vehicle Registration Mark [VRM]. I am appealing in my capacity as the vehicle hirer. There is no obligation for me to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. No assumptions or inferences can be made on this point.

To hold me liable for the charge as the hirer of the vehicle, you must meet the conditions specified in Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“the Act”). I note from your correspondence that you have failed to meet these conditions. These failures include (but are not limited to):

  • A failure to serve a Notice to Hirer containing all the information required by 14(5) of the Act.
  • A failure to include the additional documents mentioned by 13(2) of the Act.

As a result of this, you are unable to recover the specified charge from me, the hirer. As I do not have liability for this charge, I am unable to help you further with this matter. I therefore look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Any appeal must be done solely as the hirer, be careful of any drop down boxes on the online appeal form that might trick you into revealing who was driving. Your friend should be aware that this might not be a quick process - PCM will probably reject the appeal, because they can. At that point she can appeal to the IAS - they are largely useless, upholding around 5% of all appeals. Whether she bothers with them is her choice. After that, it would be a case of waiting to see if they took legal proceedings, which she would seem to have a decent defence to.