3. Resident Parking Fines
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #15 on: »
Just checked the pcn, the small print says more pictures available online, the only two on them was the reg of the car, so yeah they do have pictures of the windscreen ect, also notes that the parking information is for bay 5 holders only but looking at all the other signs around the place they all look the same, this is the only one that states bay 5 only so that isn’t misleading all all.

Still can use this and the fact that there is nothing in the bay to state it’s owned by somebody else, yeah the sign might be there but if they painted it a different colour ect then it would stand out a lot more as it’s not clear.

I shall update when the lovely chaps reply to that email. If they ever
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #16 on: »
'The signs displayed on the Land set out the terms of parking'.

IMO, rubbish.

Your terms of parking are set out in your lease of which we've only seen a snippet.

We need to see far more of the lease, in particular the definition of 'Premises' and how breaches of the lease conditions are dealt with.

My guess: there's nothing in the lease which makes leaseholders liable for random, third-party charges for failure to comply with their lease.

VCS are there to manage on behalf of leaseholders and landlord(s) and as such leaseholders are excluded from the scope of their parking conditions being instead subject only to those in their respective leases.





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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #17 on: »
Taken from the tenancy document I currently have

15.1. To park a private vehicle only at the Premises, if applicable.
15.2. To park in the car parking space, garage or driveway allocated to the Premises, if applicable.
15.3. To display a valid permit in your vehicle, whilst parking in the car parking space, garage or driveway allocated to the
premises, if applicable.
15.4. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage
caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
15.5. To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
15.6. Not to park any vehicle at the Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.

Still waiting to hear back on who owns bay 5 considering our landlord owns the other spaces and all the buildings around the area so not sure why this one space is not ? Unless it was bought recently and not been updated is all I can think of
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #18 on: »
'Premises' being capitalised indicates that it is a defined term in the lease - how is it defined?
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #19 on: »
6.5.
“Premises” includes any part or parts of the building boundaries fences garden and outbuildings belonging to
the Landlord unless they have been specifically excluded from the Tenancy. When the Tenancy is part of a larger building
the Premises include the use of common access ways and facilities.

If this helps ?
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #20 on: »

 Update this morning, sure it was more than £680 ? 9 outstanding pcn’s so that does not add up. Sent this to the landlord saying we will be taking legal action against them if they don’t try and sort their own contractors out.

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 14th September 2024.
 
We now respond to the same as follows.
 
In accordance with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, where the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) becomes overdue and before Court proceedings have commenced, a reasonable sum may be added for the debt recovery fees. The correct recovery fees have been added and will not be removed. As such, the outstanding balance of £170.00 remains payable to prevent further action. The HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that parking charge notices falls out of the scope of VAT.
 
In relation to the comments concerning damages, the sum added is a contribution to the actual costs incurred by our Client as a result of your non-payment. Our Client’s employees have spent time and material attempting to recover the debt. This is not our Client’s usual business and the resources could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased.
 
In accordance with the appeal decision made on 29thJuly 2020 in Britannia Parking group Ltd v Semark-Julien [2020] EW Mis 12 (CC), it is not correct to propose this claim should be struct out as an 'abuse of process' due to the contractual costs claimed. You may wish to seek your own independent legal advice to access up to date information
 
You now have 30 days from the date of this email to make payment of £680.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #21 on: »
Respond to that rubbish from DCB Legal with the following:

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Letters of Claim – VAT Query and Consolidation Request

I refer to your single response dated [insert date], regarding multiple PCNs for which you previously issued separate Letters of Claim (LoC). I am writing to address the procedural and substantive issues with your handling of these claims.

1. Failure to Provide a New Consolidated LoC

You initially issued two separate Letters of Claim—one for a single PCN and one for three PCNs. I responded to each of these LoCs individually, requesting that all PCNs be consolidated into a single Letter of Claim, as required by the Pre-Action Protocol (PAP) for Debt Claims. Rather than issue a new consolidated LoC, you simply responded with a single letter. This is insufficient and constitutes a failure to comply with PAP.

It is unacceptable for you to respond to multiple LoCs with a single letter without issuing a new, compliant consolidated Letter of Claim. As previously requested, I demand that you immediately issue a single, consolidated LoC covering all PCNs. Until you provide this, any further action is premature and a breach of the PAP.

2. Failure to Answer Legitimate Questions as required by the PAP

In my previous correspondence, I raised two legitimate questions which you failed to answer:

1. VAT on Debt Recovery Fees: I asked whether the sums claimed in these Letters of Claim include VAT, and if so, whether the amounts quoted are net or inclusive of VAT. If VAT has been included, I asked for an explanation of why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT. You failed to answer this question.

I am giving you one final opportunity to provide clarification on this matter. If you continue to evade this legitimate query, I will report DCB Legal to HMRC for suspected VAT fraud, given that debt recovery fees are subject to VAT, and the lack of transparency raises serious concerns about your practices.

2. Legal Basis of the Sums Claimed: I also asked whether the sums are being claimed as damages for breach of contract or as consideration for parking. You failed to provide a clear explanation of the legal basis on which these sums are being pursued. Please clarify whether the sums claimed represent damages for breach of contract or consideration for parking, as this is critical to my understanding of the claim.

3. Consolidation of PCNs

You have responded to two separate LoCs in a single letter, without addressing the full scope of my request for consolidation. I previously demanded that all PCNs be consolidated into a single claim, including any PCNs currently being processed by your client. You have not confirmed whether the four PCNs in question are the only ones being pursued, or if there are additional PCNs that remain unprocessed.

Please confirm whether any further PCNs are outstanding and, if so, include them in a new, consolidated Letter of Claim. If these four PCNs are the only ones being pursued, you must still issue a single, consolidated LoC in compliance with PAP.

4. Demand for Proper Compliance

In summary, I now demand that you:

1. Issue a new, compliant, and consolidated Letter of Claim covering all PCNs that your client intends to pursue.

2. Provide a clear answer to my question regarding the VAT treatment of the debt recovery fees and confirm whether VAT has been applied.

3. Clarify the legal basis of the sums being claimed (damages for breach of contract or consideration for parking).

4. Confirm whether there are any other PCNs being processed.

Failure to address these points will result in further action, including reporting DCB Legal for suspected VAT fraud and seeking appropriate court remedies for your procedural breaches.

I expect your full response and compliance with the PAP within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #22 on: »
In terms of flow, I wonder if point 3 would be better moved up immediately after point 1, given they're about the related themes of consolidating the various claims into 1 single claim.
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #23 on: »
Would it also not be a good idea to mention the fact we had paid for but were waiting for a permit from the landlord hence why we were parked in the bay and got the fines to begin with?

Also this from 27/08/24 re :

We are instructed by our Client to recover the outstanding balance in relation to the Parking Charge Notices (PCN's) issued to you.

The timeframe in which to submit an appeal expired prior to our instruction; you were given the opportunity to lodge appeals when the initial Notice's were issued to you.

As the person named by our client, you remain liable for the outstanding balance of £1,510.00 for all 6 cases with DCBL.

You can pay easily by using Scan to Pay, simply scan the QR code located on our letters with your phone and pay by card. You can also pay by card on the secure payment page on the website 24

This states there are 6 outstanding and it is £1500 so why this morning did she pipe up about £680 ?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 02:09:17 pm by Samuasp »
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #24 on: »
This is not the way to argue the case. Let them file a claim and then you can defend all the points. The LoC and any response is only to try and establish a few points. You can guarantee that DCB Legal are going to screw up the claim by failing to comply with CPR 16.4.

At this point, we are only trying to establish that there are no other PCNs being processed and that DCB Legal are defrauding HMRC of the VAT due on the hundreds of thousands of these claims they issue every year.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #25 on: »
Re: update from this afternoon

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 9th October 2024.
 
We now respond to the same as follows.
 
We refer to our communication of 8th October 2024, we confirm that despite your latest correspondence, our position remains as previously advised. As such, should our client instruct us to proceed with further legal action, we reserve the right to do so without any further reference to you.
 
If you are at all unsure of your legal position, we recommend that you seek your own independent legal advice.
 
You now have until the 8th November 2024 to make payment of £680.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #26 on: »
Wait for the claim from the CNBC.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #27 on: »
Thought I’d give another little update as we wait for the claim to be issued.

Dated 18th a letter from dcbl about 3 unpaid parking charges and they will take further action if payment is not made ect ect

Another one on the 24th same thing but think it was for different tickets ? I’ll have to check later

These tickets from these letters are not the same ones from dcb legal but are for the same offence
(As all the tickets issued happened on different days but for the same thing, parking in bay 5 without a permit)

Clearly not consolidated the tickets like they were asked to.

It’s resorted to me setting up a camera to monitor the parking area as we have clear sight of it from our window. The Audi that has taken our space on multiple occasions turned up Thursday night at 5pm, they just left today (Saturday) at midday. They do not have a permit to park in bay 5 or any other bays. They take which ever is free when they turn up. They have even been seen sneaking behind people into the garage and parking in the lowest level.

Now I’m not gonna be that guy and send their reg to the parking company but the footage clearly shows over the 2 day period the warden never turned up or issued a ticket, despite it being 24/7 rules.

Another point is a car was parked in bay 7, we know this one doesn’t have a permit as well. They were sat in their car and saw the warden turning up. They went and did a lap of the block and came back to park in the bay again once he’d gone. This I feel is a strong defence for the mismanagement of the parking for residents and negates their rules of 24/7 enforcement cause clearly it’s not
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Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #28 on: »
If they don't consolidate all the claims then any subsequent claims can be struck out for action estoppel. Action estoppel prevents a claimant from bringing multiple claims arising from the same set of facts or cause of action.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Resident Parking Fines
« Reply #29 on: »
I would focus on your own parking charges for now. Whether or not other drivers were issued with charges when they ought to have been isn't of much relevance to the case at hand, annoying as it might be for tenants.
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  3. Resident Parking Fines