Author Topic: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park  (Read 1416 times)

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Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
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We own a leasehold flat which, according to the terms of our lease (see below), comes with the right to park in the carp park in our building. I normally display a permit on my windshield, but when I had my car washed it seems it got dislodged from its usual position and would have been difficult for the warden to see. I was therefore given a PCN.

Here are the terms of my lease that relate to parking:
8. A right for the Tenant to park a private motor car or a motor cycle or motor cycles in a parking space within areas designated from time to time by the Landlord within the Car Park provided that:-
8.1 the Landlord gives no warranty that the parking spaces in the Car Park shall be suitable for the parking of any particular type of motor car nor that there will always be a parking space immediately available to the Tenant
8.2 the Tenant shall not have the right to park in any particular parking space within the Car Park
8.3 the Landlord may temporarily suspend the right to park for limited periods of time (which shall be as short as reasonably practicable) during the Term where necessary for the purposes of repair maintenance decoration replacement or renewal of the Car Park or any plant and equipment therein or any other works to the Estate or adjoining land
8.4 the motorcar or motorcycle must be taxed and in roadworthy condition

I have appealed the parking ticket on the grounds of my lease and the informal appeal was unsuccessful. Here is a part of their response:
Quote
Further to and in response to your appeal, P4Parking has been contracted by the landowners or agents thereof to
ensure that vehicles are only allowed to be parked on the land with authority. This authority is dependent upon the
rules as laid down by the landowners or bodies acting on behalf of such estate, land or development. P4Parking
has the authority to charge any vehicle that is parked contrary to these regulations.
It is the responsibility of the person parking to demonstrate the correct display of the relevant permit and or
adherence to the rules governing the parking of the vehicle(s) within the grounds. The area where your vehicle
was charged has a policy to which all attending vehicles must park within the pre-informed parking criteria. The
contravention you have been breached with specifically is for:
NO VALID PERMIT ON VISIBLE DISPLAY


They also say:
Quote
When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to
abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that
he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking.

Am I liable to pay this?

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Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #1 on: »
No.

But first, let's see your letter to them pl.

Depending on its contents, you could amend the following:


Dear Sir,
PCN **********

I refer to the above, my letter to you enclosing my lease and your response.

I am taking the time to write to you in the hope that this will prevent an unnecessary dispute between you and my landlord/your client and a complaint by me to the latter which might have serious negative contractual consequences for you.

As you say in your letter, you have been engaged by my landlord to enable them to discharge their obligations to me under my lease, namely that they are obligated to provide me with a parking space which I may use freely. This right is not fettered by any requirement to display a permit which is for administrative convenience only. Hitherto it seems to have worked well and I apologise that on the day in question it had become dislodged. Be that as it may, I do not need a permit to park my car as I have superior rights under my lease. I can understand you displaying signs regarding private property etc.(as indeed it is, it's mine) and I think this has helped deter unentitled persons from parking for which leaseholders are grateful, but I would urge you to resist the temptation to think that any contractual rights which you believe you have extend to leaseholders, they do not. If my landlord did not make this clear when they engaged your services, this was an error on their part. Having said this, a company of your experience should know that leases often give rights to residents to park cars on this type of property and that you should approach enforcement with this in mind.
I hope this clarifies the matter and I look forward to your response. Without seeking to place you under too much pressure and to give you time, should it be necessary, to clear your lines with your client I would expect a response within 14 days before I take the matter to your client.

YF

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #2 on: »
I am unable to access the letter at this stage, as I appealed online using their form. But I stated in the letter essentially what I stated above, and attached a photo of my permit and my lease and said that I have the right to park granted to me by the lease. I also said that the permit had been dislodged.

I am now at the point where they have given me the choice of either going to POPLA or paying the fine.

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #3 on: »
do you have a Management Co. ? or a residents association of some sort?
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #4 on: »
Yes we do. I actually spoke to them in person before I appealed and they were pretty unhelpful. They said "you have to display the permit, if you didn't then you'll just have to pay the fine sorry". Then I had a look at my lease and decided to appeal.

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #5 on: »
Then register with POPLA, at least this moves the formal position forward.

I still suggest you send the letter.

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #6 on: »
I agree. Send the letter.

It is not a "fine" and you should never refer to it as such. It is simply a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company.

AN important point to make is that what is not in your lease is as equally important as what is in it. In this case, there is no mention of a requirement to display a permit. You should mention that you only ever displayed it as a courtesy, not a requirement.

As for the management company, you may want to remind them that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent. In which case, they may want to reconsider their unhelpful attitude. Unless the lease was "varied" to include a third party such as P4Parking and permit them to issue £100 invoices to residents, then they have no legal right to do so and any attempt they made to access your DVLA data is a breach of your GDPR and opens both the operator and the management company to liability under the Data Protection Act 2018.

If they come back with any waffle about notifying the leaseholders about this, remind the that unless a variation to the lease was made according to the requirements of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Section 37, then it means nothing.

You could also point out to the management company, as they are jointly and severally liable for their agents actions, with the following:

Quote
Subject: Unlawful Parking Charge Notice, Breach of Lease Terms, and Data Protection Violations

Dear [Management Company Name/Contact Person],

I am writing to formally address the unlawful Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to me by P4Parking, the agent you have contracted to manage parking at [Residential Block Name]. The issuance of this PCN violates my rights under the terms of my Short-Term Tenancy Agreement (STA), and both you and P4Parking have unlawfully obtained and processed my personal data, in breach of the UK GDPR and Data Protection Act 2018 (DPA 2018).

Supremacy of the Tenancy Agreement

Under the terms of my STTA, I am granted:

“A right for the Tenant to park a private motor car or a motor cycle or motor cycles in a parking space within areas designated from time to time by the Landlord within the Car Park.”

This agreement does not require me to display a parking permit or comply with any scheme imposed by third parties. Additionally, there is no provision in my STA that references a need to comply with parking enforcement operated by P4Parking.

The Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (LTA 1987), Section 37, states that variations to the terms of a lease can only occur with the consent of all relevant parties and only through an order of the tribunal. No such variation has been made to the head lease or my tenancy agreement. As a result, the parking enforcement imposed by P4Parking directly interferes with my contractual rights and is unlawful.

Unlawful Data Processing

The issuance of the PCN by P4Parking required them to access my personal data from the DVLA. However, for this access to be lawful, there must be a legitimate basis under the UK GDPR and DPA 2018. In this case, no lawful basis exists because:

No Enforceable Parking Scheme: Any parking scheme that conflicts with the tenancy agreement is void and unenforceable. Consequently, the collection of personal data for enforcement purposes was unlawful.

Unlawful Processing of Personal Data: Article 5(1)(a) of the UK GDPR mandates that personal data must be processed lawfully, fairly, and transparently. P4Parking’s actions—and, by extension, yours as their principal—fail this standard.

As the contracting party with P4Parking, you bear joint and several liability for their unlawful actions. By instructing P4Parking to enforce parking regulations in contravention of tenants’ lease rights, you are complicit in the unlawful access and processing of personal data.

Liability for Compensation

Under Article 82 of the UK GDPR and Section 168 of the DPA 2018, individuals have the right to claim compensation for material or non-material damage arising from data protection breaches. In Halliday v Creation Consumer Finance Ltd [2013] EWCA Civ 333, the court confirmed that damages for distress caused by unlawful data processing are recoverable, even in the absence of financial loss.

Furthermore, Vidal-Hall v Google Inc [2015] EWCA Civ 311 established that compensation may be claimed solely for distress under the DPA 1998, a principle now enshrined in the UK GDPR and DPA 2018.

I reserve the right to pursue compensation for:

• The distress caused by the unlawful access to and processing of my personal data.

• Any costs incurred in addressing this matter, including time spent preparing my complaint.
My Demands

I request that you take the following actions within 14 days:

Cancel the PCN: Confirm in writing that the Parking Charge Notice issued to me by your agent has been cancelled.

Cease Data Processing: Ensure that all personal data related to this incident is permanently deleted from P4Parking’s systems and any systems under your control.

Acknowledge Your Liability: Provide written assurance that you will not interfere with my parking rights or unlawfully process my personal data in the future.

Failure to address these issues satisfactorily will leave me no option but to:

• File a formal complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) regarding the unlawful processing of my data.

• Pursue legal action under Article 82 of the UK GDPR for compensation arising from the data breach and interference with my tenancy rights.

Legal Consequences

You should be aware that such claims could result in:

• Significant reputational damage to your organisation.

• Financial liability, including compensation for distress and costs.

This letter serves as a formal pre-action notice under the Pre-Action Protocol for Civil Claims. Should you fail to respond appropriately, I will proceed with filing a claim in the County Court without further notice.

I trust you will address this matter promptly to avoid further escalation.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Full Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you very much for the detailed reply. Will send the letter and hopefully will get a reply soon. I have, the letter says, 28 days to lodge an appeal with POPLA if I wanted to go down that route.

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #8 on: »
Before you do anything, show us what you intend to send and to whom. As for your POPLA appeal, you actually have 33 days from the appeal rejection date. Do not send a POPLA appeal until you have had a response from the management company unless the deadline is looming.

What is your POPLA appeal deadline? Remind us a few days before that to assist you putting together the POPLA appeal.

Can you please show us the PCN you received. We need to see both sides of the original only. Please make sure that all dates and times are visible.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #9 on: »
The date on my notice is 2 December, so if we go by 28 days then 30 December, 33 days would be 4 January I think.

Have attached the original PCN (there is only a single side to it).

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #10 on: »
Quick update to the above: I have decided to follow the advice given here and send an email to the management company. I went with the leasehold argument and will hold off on the GDPR angle for now to see if they would be willing to resolve this amicably. Will update once I have had a reply. Thanks

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #11 on: »
So I have had a response from the management company. They are unwilling to intervene in this case. They said that this is a matter between me and P4 Parking and that they are unable to do anything about it. They also stated that I should have displayed the permit and if I didn't then there are clear signs in the car park instructing me to do so.

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #12 on: »
Can you please show us exactly what their response says?

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #13 on: »
The response was not in writing so I can't quote verbatim. I had to ring them up because they didn't respond to the email for many days. I have, however, followed up with another email and asked them to confirm in writing what we discussed on the phone. I can copy that over here if they do actually respond (even though they said on the phone they will respond, I still have my doubts).

But it was literally what I said above: We can't intervene in this case, the car park was clearly signed and you didn't comply with terms and conditions. I said to that that in my lease there is no mention of the signs and/or additional terms and conditions and that it's a breach of my contract. They said either way there is nothing we can do sorry. They told me literally that I can take it to court if I want (of course there is still the potential POPLA appeal I can exhaust before I'd consider anything else).

Re: Received PCN for parking in our own flat's car park
« Reply #14 on: »
Yes, you should get something from them in writing.