Author Topic: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn  (Read 1718 times)

0 Members and 30 Guests are viewing this topic.

Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« on: »
Hi all,

Four days ago I received a parking charge notice from Parkingeye, for a parking violation committed on 07.11.2024. I am from Germany, and I was on vacation in Scotland during that week. I had a car hired from Enterprise. Parkingeye are asking for 100 pounds for 11 minutes parking. On the notice it says that there is a maximum of 0 hours and 0 minutes free stay time at this car park.

First question: Is this even legal? It seems extremely impractical, e.g. if people drive in only to see that the parking space is fully occupied.

Let's assume the driver stops at this car park to check the reviews of the pub on Google Maps, then decides against going in and leaves the car park 11 mins later. The driver steps out of the car for a short amount of time to take a picture. The driver sees that there is a sign that says patron parking only, but cannot remember if there are any more prominent signs that inform the driver where and how to pay. The driver does not consider that a payment might be necessary, because they are a potential patron, but decide against going into the pub after a period of consideration.

On the notice it says that drivers must register their car inside the pub via a terminal. Reviews on Google Maps also seem to suggest that the only way to avoid a parking charge is by going inside the pub and registering the car.

Second question: Is this legal? If the pub is closed there seems to be no way to avoid the charge.

I received this notice on 4.12. via air mail to Germany. The parking charge is discounted to 60 pounds if payed within 14 days of the date issued. The notice was issued on 11.11. Even if I was willing to pay the charge, just to avoid any further hassle, I don't want to pay 40 pounds on top because the mail was late.

Here is a link to the document: https://imgur.com/a/A3iVn6S

Any help would be apprecciated, thank you!

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #1 on: »
Wilkommen! Ich habe einmal in Deutschland gewohnt. Schöne Errinerungen.

I'm sure a Parking Charge Notice wasn't the souvenir you had in mind from your visit to Scotland.

Whilst they say the allowed period is 0 minutes, they will allow a certain grace period, which must be a minimum of 5 minutes.

Practically, ParkingEye have no way to make you pay. They cannot sue you in the Scottish courts, because you are resident abroad, and they cannot sue you in the German courts for a British debt (as far as I'm aware - and even if they could, the cost and effort would be prohibitive).

On that basis, you could simply ignore them.

However, I'm mindful that as this involves a rental company, ParkingEye might revert to chasing the hire company, who might then pay the charge and try to recover it from you - do Enterprise have your credit/debit card details?

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #2 on: »
If Enterprise has sent the details to Parkingeye would this absolve them from a come back claim against them?

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #3 on: »
There's no keeper liability in Scotland (yet) anyway, but hire companies are prone to doing silly things when in receipt of parking charges.

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #4 on: »
Is the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) you received addressed to you as the Hirer of the vehicle or is it simply a copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was sent to the Hire company?

This will determine  whether the Hire company has followed the correct procedure to transfer liability away from themselves to you, the Hirer. If they have correctly followed the procedure to transfer liability from themselves as the Registered Keeper (RK) to you, the Hirer, then ParkingEye cannot later go back and try and recover anything from the RK.

So, if the PCN you have received is in your name, then it is a Notice to Hirer (NtH) and only the driver can be liable. Neither the Hire company nor ParkingEye know who the driver is. In Scotland, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability anyway.

If all you have received is a copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) received by the Hire company, then they may not have correctly transferred liability away from themselves and could be chased by ParkingEye which in turn, means they could try and chase you, although unlikely as you are not a UK resident, unless you have given them authorisation to charge your credit card.

There is no way ParkingEye can chase you in Germany. They have no jurisdiction. Your only concern is whether the Hire company have transferred liability as required under PoFA. If they have, you can simply ignore the PCN.

So, is the PCN in your name or the Hire company's name?

Edit... on reading the PCN, it would appear to be an NtH in the Hirers name because the back of it does not contain the usual PoFA warning. In which case, simply ignore the letter and carry on with your life.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 01:13:44 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #5 on: »
It wouldn't have had the PoFA wording on at any rate having been issued in Scotland.

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #6 on: »
Hey, thanks for the reply! The notice is adressed to me personally, so I assume Enterprise gave my name and adress to Parkingeye. I have read that there is no keeper liability in Scotland, but was unsure whether this applies to hired cars as well. So should I appeal on the basis that they cannot prove who was driving? I would prefer if I could resolve this once and for all. I have read of a similar case on another website where Parkingeye hired a German debt collection agency to pressure the person to pay, and I could do without that.

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #7 on: »
Disregard the German case. Debt collectors in the UK cannot do anything except scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying. They cannot do anything else, which is why you are advised to ignore the useless debt collectors.

Even if PE had hired a German debt collector, how on earth do you imagine they could chase an English debt in the German courts? There is no jurisdiction. If they did send a German debt collector after someone, they are relying on the gullibility, ignorance and stupidity of the recipient to pay it.

With regards to your case, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability in Scotland. Even if this was in England, they still cannot sue the Hirer because they will not have fully complied with PoFA paragraphs 13 and 14.

So, you appeal on the basis that you are the Hirer. You are under no legal obligation to reveal the drivers identity. There is no Hirer liability in Scotland. End of.

Simply appeal with the following:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As you will be fully aware, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability in Scotland. Even if there was, your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of paragraphs 13 and 14 of PoFA 2012. So, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge.

As there is no legal obligation for the Hirer to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company, there will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. ParkingEye has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. ParkingEye have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #8 on: »
I would amend the template slightly as follows

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As you will be fully aware, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability in Scotland. Even if there was, your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of paragraphs 13 and 14 of PoFA 2012. So, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge.

As there is no legal obligation for the Hirer to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company, there will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. ParkingEye has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. ParkingEye have no hope at POPLA, so You are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

This is because only the driver can appeal to POPLA in Scotland.

Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks a lot for your advice. Vielen Dank! I have appealed with the template you provided.Let's see what happens.