Author Topic: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs (Read 139 times)

yorkshirepudding · « **on:** March 04, 2025, 03:52:59 pm »

Advice please

As per title, driver pulled off the highway into a pub car park for a quick driving break, no other vehicles on the car park and pub was closed. Occupants didn't leave vehicle or vicinity of it just pulled in for a leg stretch and break from driving. A passenger suddenly looked up and noticed the two warning signs in the car park, which were not visible from eye level or whilst parked. A passenger attempted to download the app to pay but signal was not strong, the app did download later but retrospective payments not accepted, and also no payment without location code, which couldn't be seen anywhere. After this the driver left, hoping that the short stay would be within some allowed timescale, obviously not!

This is driver error I assume for not spotting the sneaky signs, is it best to just pay up now?

Photo of car park sign from internet as didn't think to take one at the time.

Any advice appreciated, have already been advised to pay up on another group so occupants are resigned to this being an expensive pit stop.

b789 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2025, 01:03:24 am »

Oh dear... Premier Park are in breach of several laws and their directors are criminally liable for the following:

By providing only a PO Box address instead of a full registered office address is unlawful:

• It breaches the Companies Act 2006 and UK disclosure laws.
• It is a criminal offence under The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008.
• Premier Park Ltd (and its directors) can be fined for non-compliance.
• This can be reported to Companies House and Trading Standards.
• The NtK’s non-compliance can be used as a defence against any future claim.

The Notice to Keeper fails to provide a legally required serviceable address, making it invalid and unenforceable. It also casts into doubt that any contract could have been formed as their signage also only shows a PO Box instead of a serviceable address.

All good stuff to include in a POPLA appeal.

DWMB2 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 05, 2025, 06:11:06 am »

They don't only provide a PO Box on the notice to keeper. Their registered address is provided at the bottom of page 2.

OP do you have any photos showing the layout of the signage?

b789 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 05, 2025, 10:41:02 am »

But it’s not on their contractual sign.

I’m seeking judicial advice on whether this is a valid legal point that invalidates the contract. I’m not really bothered if a POPLA assessor does or does not have the intellectual capacity or necessary training in contractual law, but it would certainly be useful as a defence in any claim.

Quote

A private parking company displays signage at a car park setting out contractual terms. However, instead of providing their registered office address, the signs only includes a PO Box. The company does have a registered office, which is listed on Companies House and their website, but it is not displayed on the signs that forms the contract with the driver.

My argument is that:

1. The car park is a place where the company carries on business – they operate, issue charges, and generate revenue from motorists there.

2. The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 require a company to display its registered name at any location where it carries on business and to provide its registered office address on business documents.

3. A PO Box is not a legally recognised business address, meaning the contract terms are not lawfully presented.

4. If the signage does not meet legal requirements, a valid contract was not formed, and the company cannot enforce the parking charge.

yorkshirepudding · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2025, 02:17:35 pm »

Quote from: DWMB2 on March 05, 2025, 06:11:06 am

They don't only provide a PO Box on the notice to keeper. Their registered address is provided at the bottom of page 2.

OP do you have any photos showing the layout of the signage?

I'm afraid not and it does not appear on street view as the signage was only installed in November apparently. I do want to go over and take a look but unfortunately there's not many places to park there, ironically!

b789 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2025, 03:59:25 pm »

Here is paragraph that can be used in a POPLA appeal:

Quote

Premier Park Limited has failed to comply with The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 by not displaying their registered office address on the signage at the site. Instead, they have only provided a PO Box, which is not a legally valid business address.

These regulations require a company to display its registered name at any place where it carries on business. Since Premier Park conducts business at this car park by offering parking terms, charging fees, and issuing parking charges, they must comply with this legal requirement.

Breaching Regulation 10 is a Criminal Offence

Under Regulation 10 of The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008, failing to meet these disclosure requirements without reasonable excuse is a criminal offence.

Regulation 10 states:

“If a company fails, without reasonable excuse, to comply with any requirement of these Regulations, an offence is committed by the company and every officer of the company who is in default.”

This means that:

• Both the company and its directors can be prosecuted for failing to display the required information.

• The offence can result in a fine, and enforcement action can be taken by Companies House or Trading Standards.

Since Premier Park has committed an unlawful act, the principle of ex turpi causa non oritur actio applies. This legal principle states that a party cannot enforce a claim if it arises from their own unlawful conduct.

Since Premier Park has acted unlawfully, they cannot rely on their signage to form a contract with the driver. No valid contract exists, and the Parking Charge Notice must be cancelled.

yorkshirepudding · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2025, 04:20:41 pm »

Thank you b789, I will need to revisit the car park soon to double check on the signage and will be using your paragraph if I can find no other signage with the full address.

Thank you again!

DWMB2 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2025, 04:36:15 pm »

For your interest, there's a current discussion going on about the PO Box argument elsewhere on the forum, that you wish to read: PO Box address invalidating a contract?

b789 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2025, 04:41:56 pm »

I'm just exploring other issues with the "contractual" side of the argument. Ti is just one single issue that will be argued at POPLA and, if necessary, at court.

No one is relying on this single issue alone.

DWMB2 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2025, 04:42:58 pm »

For clarity, I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

yorkshirepudding · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2025, 08:21:46 pm »

I have visited the site again today to see the signage, unfortunately there is plenty of it! No idea how it was missed. However, I have found at least one other person on social media who missed the signs, and as they had a meal in the pub they actually got out and walked past them all.

The only issue with the signage was it is angled the wrong way to see if you enter from the right, which is the way the car I was a passenger in, entered. Both entrances have the signs facing left. Also, they are high up out of eyeline, although as you will see from the photos there are plenty of them unfortunately.

yorkshirepudding · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2025, 03:17:20 pm »

A POPLA appeal is being prepared based on information supplied by b789 above, and I wonder if anyone considers the signage inadequate at the entrance the vehicle entered the car park? I attach links to the images showing the road and car park entrance below. The red arrow in 2nd pic shows the West entrance to the car park that was used in this instance.

I assume I have to appeal to the parking company first to get a number to use at POPLA.

Thank you in anticipation

b789 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2025, 05:20:30 pm »

You have to have your initial appeal to the operator rejected before you get a POPLA code. As any initial appeal is going to be rejected simply appeal with the following for now:

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Premier Park has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Premier Park have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

yorkshirepudding · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2025, 02:43:06 pm »

Thank you b789.

yorkshirepudding · « **Reply #14 on:** **Yesterday** at 01:23:06 pm »

Just to update this thread, I have today appealed on behalf of the registered keeper with the wording supplied, I noticed the sneaky drop down box which was automatically set at registered keeper and driver, changed that pretty quick!

We have also now received their next letter, advising that we are now unable to take advantage of the discounted fine offer, and risk the debt being sent to a debt collector, oh well.

I await rejection of the appeal!

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Author Topic: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs (Read 139 times)

yorkshirepudding

Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

b789

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

DWMB2

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

b789

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

yorkshirepudding

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

b789

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

yorkshirepudding

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

DWMB2

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

b789

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

DWMB2

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

yorkshirepudding

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

yorkshirepudding

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

b789

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

yorkshirepudding

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs

yorkshirepudding

Re: Premier Park PCN pulled into a closed pub car park for 20 minutes didn't see warning signs