Author Topic: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn  (Read 4606 times)

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PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
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I received 2 parking fines from PCS(Parking Collection Service) for staying above their 30mins limit a week apart. I did not stay either day for 30mins every time I visited. I did visit multiple times in the day to drop off and pick up my children. I have Google maps location time stamp for one date which proves that I was there continuously only for 23 minutes ( the PCN was issued through Anpr camera system). I used this evidence for my appeal. The problem now is that this company claims that they sent me a rejection letter email on the 14thJuly which I never received. I sent them an email on the 6th Aug in-between asking for an update but didn't receive an answer. I was abroad from 24thJuly to 28th August. They have now sent me a debt collection letter. I requested popla for a late appeal due to being abroad but they have rejected this. I managed to call them to get a copy of the rejection letter which they have sent to me but without any date stamps to prove that they did indeed send it on the day they claimed. What are my options now? Should I fight this in court or just pay the hefty amount and get on with it? I am thinking that they are counting my other drop off of the day too in the time allowed even though the sign just mentions 30mins without specifications. Any advice?
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hulwjawr3z83s0dcfzx7r/Battersea-Notice-copy.jpg?rlkey=civikibkol63tmpaa7har7flv&st=oqf8jefe&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bzqxn91i7t0icefm7mund/original-pcn.jpg?rlkey=kbn3wu0zj72wbzqot9jxli67i&st=2ovhd586&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/25gy6ncn1rwju5502v0z7/rejection-letter-1.png?rlkey=x78a8pnsj3712att6e3jynx9h&st=qf9mj906&dl=0

https://maps.app.goo.gl/mpFm7RcMVqYKT4wz7
« Last Edit: September 02, 2025, 08:18:34 pm by AC PCN Battersea Reach »

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Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #1 on: »
They’re not fines, they’re speculative invoices.

Ignore debt collectors and their letters, do not respond in any way.

You’re too late for POPLA, no big deal.

Please post any paperwork you have, it will only help you here if you do.

However essentially you tell them to get lost, you won’t pay them a penny and you’ll see them in court.

It’s likely that they’ll go through the process of taking you to court but discontinue before paying the court fee, because it’s what lots of them do.

Otherwise you’ll win in court anyway, just ensure you have your evidence.

Wait for a Letter of Claim and come back here if/when you do.

Most of these companies ‘threaten’ court to frighten you into paying up. It costs them a few pounds but their victims pay them Ł100.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2025, 08:00:38 pm by jfollows »

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #2 on: »
“PCS”?

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #3 on: »
The parking fine came from PCS- parking collection service but the original private land had the board with PES signage. I have added dropbox links to my documents and updated my text.

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #4 on: »
Please tell us that you didn’t blab the drivers identity when you appealed!

Their Notice to Keeper is not PoFA compliant which means there can be no Keeper liability. They have no idea of the drivers identity unless the Keeper blabs it, inadvertently or otherwise.

Without the drivers identity, which the Keeper is under no legal obligation reveal to an unregulated private parking firm, they have no way of pursuing the charge.

So, has the drivers identity been revealed to them?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #5 on: »
Please tell us that you didn’t blab the drivers identity when you appealed!

Their Notice to Keeper is not PoFA compliant which means there can be no Keeper liability. They have no idea of the drivers identity unless the Keeper blabs it, inadvertently or otherwise.

Without the drivers identity, which the Keeper is under no legal obligation reveal to an unregulated private parking firm, they have no way of pursuing the charge.

So, has the drivers identity been revealed to them?

Yes, I Wrote to them saying I was the driver in my appeal as the pcn came under my husband's name. I didn't know any better- I really naively thought if I showed them proof that I was there for less than the stipulated time limit, they would cancel the fine.

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #6 on: »
These companies’ only source of income is from what you call fines.
Regardless of identifying the driver, you tell them you’re not paying because of their failure to correctly correlate entry and exits. They’ll probably start court proceedings but you’ll get advice here and of course ultimately it will come to nothing.

They’re as much a fine as if I were to invoice you for mowing your neighbour’s lawn. You wouldn’t pay me under those circumstances, would you?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2025, 01:28:28 pm by jfollows »

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #7 on: »
You made a serious mistake by appealing the parking charge in your own name and identifying yourself as the driver. The notice was sent to your husband as the registered keeper, and crucially, the parking company was not relying on the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) to hold him liable. That means they had no legal route to pursue him unless he named the driver—which he didn’t.

As long as your husband stayed silent or simply stated he wasn’t the driver and didn’t wish to name the driver, the parking company would have been stuck. Without PoFA compliance and without knowing who was driving, they couldn’t legally enforce the charge against anyone.

But by voluntarily appealing and admitting you were the driver, you handed them exactly what they needed. You gave them a name and a liability target. Now they don’t need PoFA. They can pursue you directly, and they likely will—through debt collection letters and possibly a county court claim.

This could have been shut down cleanly if you hadn’t stepped in. Instead, you’ve exposed yourself to legal action and removed the keeper’s protection. That’s the reality now.

However, all is not lost, even though you blew up the guaranteed, golden ticket win had the Keeper simply appealed and refused to identify the driver.

Here is a plain explanation of where you stand and what you can do next.

What this notice is
PCS (Parking Collection Services) sent the letter, but the “creditor” named on it is Parking Enforcement and Security Services (PESS). PCS are acting as PESS’s back-office/agent. The sign on site is branded “Battersea Reach” with PESS details and shows “30 minutes maximum stay”. There is no “no return within X hours” term on the sign in your photo.

Why PoFA no longer helps you
The notice you received is not drafted to transfer liability to the registered keeper under PoFA. That would normally be a strong defence for the keeper. However, you appealed in your own name and identified yourself as the driver. That lets PESS pursue you directly as driver, so PoFA becomes irrelevant in your case.

The core merits of your case
a) Multiple short visits (“double-dip”): ANPR systems often pair the first entry with the last exit and miss a middle visit. The sign says a single stay is limited to 30 minutes. It does not say visits are cumulative across a day. If you made two or more brief visits, there will be “orphan” images that their system should have found.

b) Required ANPR checks: The PPSCoP requires operators who use ANPR to run manual quality control checks to detect orphan images and multiple visits. If they failed to do that, the data request to DVLA was unlawfully made off the back of unreliable ANPR evidence.

c) Consideration/grace time: camera “gate to gate” timestamps overstate the true “period of parking”, because time is needed to enter, read signs and leave.

d) Signage: ambiguity is read against the operator. “30 minutes maximum stay” with no “no return” term does not ban two separate short drop-offs.

Your options, simply:

A) Pay and finish it. Fast, no further hassle.
B) Fight it. Reasonable prospects if you can show multiple short visits and the lack of a “no return” term. Ignore debt-collector letters. Only engage with the operator/its solicitors, a Letter of Claim, or an actual county court claim.

What to do now if you wish to fight

a) Send a Subject Access Request to PESS (and copy PCS). Ask for full ANPR logs for your number plate for each date, all images, camera locations/IDs, and the internal check they performed for orphan images/multiple visits. Ask for copies of every letter/email, together with send logs/metadata, and site photographs of the signage current at the time. Tell them to place the account on hold for 30 days while they comply.

b) Send a short complaint to PESS saying you were abroad from 24 July to 28 August (attach proof), you never received the alleged 14 July rejection email, and the undated copy they later sent does not prove it was transmitted. Ask them either to cancel or to issue a fresh POPLA code as fair ADR.

c) Ask the landowner/site managing agent to cancel as a discretionary cancellation. Attach your Google Location Timeline for the one date you have, explain there were multiple short drop-offs/pick-ups, and state that the sign contains no “no return” term.

d) Gather evidence now for both dates: export Google Location History if available; keep any receipts, dashcam files, school/nursery timing records, or witnesses.

DVLA and complaints
If the ANPR was not quality-checked for orphan images, the “reasonable cause” to get keeper data is in doubt. You can raise a complaint to the DVLA and, if needed, to the ICO, on the basis that inaccurate ANPR processing led to your data being used to pursue a charge that appears to arise from a missed multiple-visit check. Keep this proportional: it supports your position but does not itself cancel the charge.

If a Letter of Claim or a court claim arrives
Do not ignore either. You would defend on the merits: two short visits are not a single overstay, the sign allows separate visits, the operator failed to carry out the required ANPR quality controls, the camera times are not the parking period, and any added “debt recovery” add-on is not recoverable. If it reached a hearing and you lost, there is no lasting CCJ if you pay within one calendar month.

If you can evidence two separate short visits (ideally on both dates) and the operator’s logs show more than one entry/exit, fighting is sensible. If you cannot assemble evidence for the second ticket and want zero hassle, paying may be the pragmatic option.

Of course, if it were me, I’d fight it all the way.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #8 on: »
You made a serious mistake by appealing the parking charge in your own name and identifying yourself as the driver. The notice was sent to your husband as the registered keeper, and crucially, the parking company was not relying on the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) to hold him liable. That means they had no legal route to pursue him unless he named the driver—which he didn’t.

As long as your husband stayed silent or simply stated he wasn’t the driver and didn’t wish to name the driver, the parking company would have been stuck. Without PoFA compliance and without knowing who was driving, they couldn’t legally enforce the charge against anyone.

But by voluntarily appealing and admitting you were the driver, you handed them exactly what they needed. You gave them a name and a liability target. Now they don’t need PoFA. They can pursue you directly, and they likely will—through debt collection letters and possibly a county court claim.

This could have been shut down cleanly if you hadn’t stepped in. Instead, you’ve exposed yourself to legal action and removed the keeper’s protection. That’s the reality now.

However, all is not lost, even though you blew up the guaranteed, golden ticket win had the Keeper simply appealed and refused to identify the driver.

Here is a plain explanation of where you stand and what you can do next.

What this notice is
PCS (Parking Collection Services) sent the letter, but the “creditor” named on it is Parking Enforcement and Security Services (PESS). PCS are acting as PESS’s back-office/agent. The sign on site is branded “Battersea Reach” with PESS details and shows “30 minutes maximum stay”. There is no “no return within X hours” term on the sign in your photo.

Why PoFA no longer helps you
The notice you received is not drafted to transfer liability to the registered keeper under PoFA. That would normally be a strong defence for the keeper. However, you appealed in your own name and identified yourself as the driver. That lets PESS pursue you directly as driver, so PoFA becomes irrelevant in your case.

The core merits of your case
a) Multiple short visits (“double-dip”): ANPR systems often pair the first entry with the last exit and miss a middle visit. The sign says a single stay is limited to 30 minutes. It does not say visits are cumulative across a day. If you made two or more brief visits, there will be “orphan” images that their system should have found.

b) Required ANPR checks: The PPSCoP requires operators who use ANPR to run manual quality control checks to detect orphan images and multiple visits. If they failed to do that, the data request to DVLA was unlawfully made off the back of unreliable ANPR evidence.

c) Consideration/grace time: camera “gate to gate” timestamps overstate the true “period of parking”, because time is needed to enter, read signs and leave.

d) Signage: ambiguity is read against the operator. “30 minutes maximum stay” with no “no return” term does not ban two separate short drop-offs.

Your options, simply:

A) Pay and finish it. Fast, no further hassle.
B) Fight it. Reasonable prospects if you can show multiple short visits and the lack of a “no return” term. Ignore debt-collector letters. Only engage with the operator/its solicitors, a Letter of Claim, or an actual county court claim.

What to do now if you wish to fight

a) Send a Subject Access Request to PESS (and copy PCS). Ask for full ANPR logs for your number plate for each date, all images, camera locations/IDs, and the internal check they performed for orphan images/multiple visits. Ask for copies of every letter/email, together with send logs/metadata, and site photographs of the signage current at the time. Tell them to place the account on hold for 30 days while they comply.

b) Send a short complaint to PESS saying you were abroad from 24 July to 28 August (attach proof), you never received the alleged 14 July rejection email, and the undated copy they later sent does not prove it was transmitted. Ask them either to cancel or to issue a fresh POPLA code as fair ADR.

c) Ask the landowner/site managing agent to cancel as a discretionary cancellation. Attach your Google Location Timeline for the one date you have, explain there were multiple short drop-offs/pick-ups, and state that the sign contains no “no return” term.

d) Gather evidence now for both dates: export Google Location History if available; keep any receipts, dashcam files, school/nursery timing records, or witnesses.

DVLA and complaints
If the ANPR was not quality-checked for orphan images, the “reasonable cause” to get keeper data is in doubt. You can raise a complaint to the DVLA and, if needed, to the ICO, on the basis that inaccurate ANPR processing led to your data being used to pursue a charge that appears to arise from a missed multiple-visit check. Keep this proportional: it supports your position but does not itself cancel the charge.

If a Letter of Claim or a court claim arrives
Do not ignore either. You would defend on the merits: two short visits are not a single overstay, the sign allows separate visits, the operator failed to carry out the required ANPR quality controls, the camera times are not the parking period, and any added “debt recovery” add-on is not recoverable. If it reached a hearing and you lost, there is no lasting CCJ if you pay within one calendar month.

If you can evidence two separate short visits (ideally on both dates) and the operator’s logs show more than one entry/exit, fighting is sensible. If you cannot assemble evidence for the second ticket and want zero hassle, paying may be the pragmatic option.

Of course, if it were me, I’d fight it all the way.

Thank you very much for the detailed guidance, extremely grateful for this. In the meantime, it occurred to me to call PESS number on the battersea signpost to ask for the time stamps( as it was not visible on the PCN website). The 1st timeline according to the PESS log is arrival 17.01 and departure 17.36. My google timeline shows that I arrived at the site only at 17.10 and left at 17.35. I also arrived earlier at 15.48 and left at 16.10 which was not logged. For the 2nd PCN, PESS log arrival is 16.45 and departure 17.15( which is exactly 30mins anyways). I do not have a google maps timeline for this trip unfortunately but based on my children's lesson timings and my memory, I arrived to drop off at 16.00, left straight after and came back for pick up, arriving at 17.15 and leaving at 17.35. I am baffled by the discrepencies in the timelogs and my timeline. I know the 30 mins rule and have been extremely cautious with it during all my trips, especially on these days with a timer.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2025, 02:22:12 pm by AC PCN Battersea Reach »

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #9 on: »
I would recommend getting that information in writing as per b789's suggestions - you recounting details from a phone call is evidence, but not as reliable as the same in writing.

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #10 on: »
Evidence from a phone call is not worth the paper it isn’t written on. SAR PESS for EVERY piece of information they have on you and the vehicle. EVERYTHING, including all metadata and strict proof of posting anything by snail mail.

By fighting this, the most likely outcome is that they will push all the way to a county court claim which will eventually be struck out or discontinued before any hearing.

You can safely ignore all debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

Get a DVLA complaint in your husbands name. They had no reasonable cause to request his data as PESS/PCS failed to comply with the PPSCoP section 7.3(d) which states:

7.3. Use of photographic evidence

Photographic evidence must not be used by a parking operator as the basis for issuing a parking charge unless:

d) images generated by ANPR or CCTV have been subject to a manual quality control check, including the accuracy of the timestamp and the risk of keying errors.

Note 1 to that subsection then goes on to clearly state:

NOTE 1: The manual quality control check for remote ANPR and CCTV systems is particularly important for detecting issues such as “double dipping”, where image camera systems might have failed to accurately record each instance when a vehicle enters and leaves controlled land, and for checking images that might have been taken other than by a trained parking attendant (see Clause 15). The manual check might also reveal where “tailgating” – vehicles passing a camera close together – is a problem, suggesting relocation of the camera might be necessary.

Whilst the DVLA will try to fob it off under the excuse of reasonable cause, you have evidence that they cannot have performed the required manual quality control checks, otherwise they would have known that there was no reasonable cause to request his data in the first place. Escalate if necessary.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #11 on: »
Really appreciate all your detailed responses, I am extremely grateful, thank you. To prepare for any future court claims, I am trying to gather as much evidence as possible based on your suggestions. For the moment, I have received photographics evidence by email of the time stamps of my entry and exit from PESS for which they have issued the PCN. They do not have any other recordings.
On the 14th, the recording is entry-exit total time 29mins 18secs( 16:45:55 to 17:15:13). I am glad because I do not have my google maps timeline for this date. I am definitely fighting this.
For the 7th, their photo suggests that I entered at 17:01 whereas my google timeline shows 17:10( that's a big difference for such a small road). My exit in their photo shows 17:36 and my google maps timeline shows me driving away at 17:35 which is probably right.
To understand better, do they manually enter the time for ANPR systems or did the camera capture this? Could they argue that google maps timeline is not accurate? I did keep a timer in my phone on that day to avoid overstaying so I am certain that I did not stay for more than 30 mins. I am so confused how they have the time 17:01 as I left home at 16.57 and there is no way for me to have arrived there in 4 mins( unfortunately my doorbell camera has deleted the file as it was more than two months old). However, with this photographic evidence from their side, where do I stand, what are my chances?

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #12 on: »
It is very possible that they have tried to edit the timestamp. You are dealings it’s ex-clampers who will do anything to try and keep their snouts in the money trough that is the unregulated private parking scam.

I seriously doubt this will ever reach a hearing in court and of course tney will be put to strict proof of their claim. It is not your job to prove you were not there longer than you state. The burden of proof is on them to prove you were.

You would wait to see what evidence they come up with and then you can rebut anything.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #13 on: »
I now have evidence from my neighbour's doorbell camera which shows me leaving the house at 16:56. However, since it was raining heavily that day, I had a raincoat with a hood- no one except people who know me can say that it was me! My car is also shown in the video but the number plate is covered by a temporary road sign. Will this be an acceptable evidence in court? The minimum driving time to the location from home is 10mins with zero traffic.
Apologies for this question, I am very ignorant in these matters. Who sends the court letter? The court or the parking company? Will I definitely receive it by post? I just hope there will be a fair chance to show all the evidence I have.

Re: PES Battersea Reach- less than 30mins stay but received pcn
« Reply #14 on: »
The starting point in court is that it is for the claimant to prove their case, not for you to prove yours. When it comes to assessing evidence, civil court works on the 'balance of probabilities' - if your evidence can demonstrate that, on the balance of probability, your vehicle was not there for the durations claimed, you win. You seem to have some decent evidence that casts doubt on the parking company's version of events.

Quote
Who sends the court letter?
A Letter of Claim would come from the parking company or (more likely) a legal firm representing them. The actual court claim would come from the courts.