Author Topic: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park  (Read 1308 times)

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PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
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A guest of ours has received a £100 PCN for parking overnight in a VISITOR space. Need guidance on best way to appeal this.

For context, our block of flats we live in has a private car park with spaces numbered by our door numbers (10,11 ,12 etc) but also 3 visitor spaces just labelled “V”.

The parking enforcement company has failed to give us new permits for our own designated parking spaces - these permits expired 8th October 2023. It is currently 5th November 2023 & no sign of new permits for the year despite a few of my neighbours having emailed the company responsible. A neighbour received the following from the company when requesting: “Please be advised we are still awaiting approval from the client of the car park” as a explanation why they couldn’t get hold of more visitor permits nor new designated passes.

In addition to permits for designated spots, they also have these paper permits which you’re meant to give visitors but many of us don’t have any left as they are one use & other neighbours have requested more along with their new permits - still to no avail. The signs displayed don’t reference “visitor” spots & you wouldn’t actually know that you need this piece of paper for parking in a VISITOR spot. Absolutely absurd to need a permit for visitor space in my opinion.

The signs that are visible state:

“ Valid Parking Permits Only. Park Only Within The Lines Of Your Permitted Allocated Bay. Permit holders must clearly display a valid permit inside the front windscreen of the vehicle with all details clearly visible at all times.”

Given the fact that genuinely none of us have  “valid” permits (they’re all expired 08/10/2023), signs are unclear regarding visitor spaces & there’s confusion regarding the control of the car park - is this enough ground for appeal or if not, what else can we look into? TIA

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Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #1 on: »
It may be beneficial if the recipient of the notice posts directly, as it can occasionally turn into a game of Chinese whispers otherwise, and they are the one who is going to need to submit any appeals, or legal defences if it goes that far.

Another thing to note, so that they are going into this with their eyes open, is that regardless of the strength of any appeals, VCS are likely to reject them, as are the 'Independent Appeals Service'. VCS can be litigious, so if they're going to fight this, your guest may need to be prepared to defend themselves in the County Court (Small Claims track).

It would be helpful to see a copy of the notice they have received.

One point to note is that the signage looks 'forbidding' - there's no consideration offered to the driver, only to those in possession of a permit, so one could argue that no contract was formed.

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #2 on: »
Who owns the land on which your visitor parked?
Or more accurately, who employed the parking management company?

If the land is owned by a freeholder, who is the freeholder? Did the freeholder delegate parking to a PPC?

In residential parking situations, the status of the land (is this communal held by the freeholder?), the relationship with any management company, and their relationship with any PPC is probably more important than signs.

Over on Pepipoo, at least one case arose where a block of flats had the Residents Association (which has no legal standing in a lease) employ a PPC.

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #3 on: »
Apologies! Lost the login but just got back on. I am the one listed on the fine now - they sent me a payment reminder of £170. The property managing firm informed me that our specific property manager contacted VCS to drop the charge but VCS emailed me today stating they received nothing of the sort. Firstport, our property managers, said they’re aware of the delay & seems to accept responsibility.

I have recieved a “demand for payment” letter today & just wondering what I should prepare if it comes to county court. I 100% feel like the delay between the companies should not punish myself.

Whats comical is that they’re sending the payment reminder to myself at the postcode that apparently where the fine incurred - shouldn’t this clearly show that it’s a bogus charge & VCS shouldn’t waste their time to pursue Bizarre!

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #4 on: »
STILL NO SIGN OF NEW PERMITS BEING ISSUED TO US RESIDENTS. VCS claim they sent the permits to firstport late November but we haven’t got them - firstport have stated they’ll be delivering them next week. Does this help prove my case?

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote
I am the one listed on the fine now
How?

You'll need to tell us exactly what correspondence has been sent by you or your guest to VCS in relation to the parking charge.

You've still not answered any of the questions asked by me or thevaliant. We can't help you unless you help us to do so.

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #6 on: »
In regards to me being addressed. I presume they changed the address to myself as I was conversing with them a lot on email? Kinda out of the blue. Attached is the most recent letter.

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Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #7 on: »
Then we need to see the contents of those emails.

And the answers to the several questions already asked.

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #8 on: »
I’m not entirely sure owns the land. I’ve tried to find this out - FirstPort property managers are the people who deal with everything & I had confirmation from FirstPort that our specific property manager, Vanessa Crane, contacted VCS to reverse the charge - this is something VCS said never happened. My flat is leasehold but I’m just a tenant renting. Our tenancy agreement includes car parking space. I’m not aware of any resident group except there’s an annual meeting to discuss service charges from FirstPort (but I’ve never had experience with this as all included in rent).

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #9 on: »
We could do with seeing redacted copies of the emails between you and the parking company, to see why they might be writing to you instead of the guest.

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #10 on: »
Attached to imgur are the screenshots showing my appeal being rejected, conversation with FirstPort & VCS..

https://imgur.com/a/mvx3RJl

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Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #11 on: »
It’s my friend & I told him I’d deal with it as I thought it would be it quick issue to resolve. I’ve not once stated that I am the driver but have been communicating that it would be my permit. The permits aren’t linked to a specific reg number. The visitor permits & resident permits are issued at same time.

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #12 on: »
What exactly was submitted as the appeal?

The online forms for appealing usually ask you to select an option from a drop down list explaining your relationship to the vehicle. What did you select?

Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #13 on: »
There was an option to state that I have the right to park there. Added comment about the permit situation & seems they acknowledged this on the acknowledgment of the appeal.

I had consent from my friend to act on his behalf so I believe I ticked a box to that extent.

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Re: PCN - Visitor Space - Private Residential Car Park
« Reply #14 on: »
This is their rejection of it. Asking me to send them a valid permit when I’ve had written confirmation from VCS that they hadn’t even sent out the new permits (to firstport not residents) until end November so it’s plain impossible. This led me to believe they didn’t even read my appeal properly.

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« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 11:47:19 pm by Neftlix »