Author Topic: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay  (Read 3624 times)

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PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« on: »
The registered keeper is not the driver. Tomorrow is the last day to pay the reduced rate/appeal at that rate. No actions have been taken as of yet.

The driver entered the car park at 10:42 and left at 14:23 - there is a three hour parking limit and so this is a 31 minute overstay.

The driver was on site using the facilities in the retail park the entire time - there are shops, activities, and restaurants, although the driver remained at one establishment in the retail park for the duration.

There is no signage on entering the retail park, small signs around the area but nothing near the space the driver was parked, and no option to extend the time should you wish to continue to use the facilities.

What would be the advised next steps? There is time to appeal at the low rate, although the driver believes that this is an unfair system and from research is not the only person caught out using the facilities on site. There are signs dotted around.

Are you able to assist with a strategy for managing this? So we think that there is scope to reply that the fine is cancelled on the basis of the continued use of the establishments at the retail park? There is wording on the back of the letter about the responsibility reverting to the registered keeper? Is this lawful?

Many thanks



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Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #1 on: »
Not compliant with PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) and also not compliant with PBA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) section 8.1.2(e).

So, it is not PoFA compliant which means that they cannot hold the Keeper liable. Only the driver can be liable and they have no idea who that is unless the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. No saying silly things like "I did this or that". The Keeper always refers to the driver in the third person such as "The driver did this or that". Don't tell 'em your name Pike!

As it has also breached  the PPSCoP, that will be another point that can be used in the subsequent POPLA appeal because they will reject any initial appeal, no matter what is pleaded.

However, have you tried Plan A yet? Find out the landowner or their managing agent. These detail are usually found at the bottom of the big advertising plinth near the entrance to a retail park.

Plan B is the initial appeal. You mention the "low rate". Do you mean the 40% "mugs discount"? The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is nothing more than a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. Would you pay any speculative voice from a private company simply because they are offering a 40% discount?

If you feel the PCN has been issued unfairly then you either follow the advice and fight it or you don't waste our time and just pay the ex-clampers what they're asking and become a part of the problem.

If Plan A doesn't work, then for Plan B you simply send the following which will be rejected with a POPLA code for a Plan C appeal:

Easy one to deal with... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UKPA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UKPA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you so much for your help.

It will be tricky to try and get back to the site to understand who the landowner/managing agent is. The few signs are too small on Google maps.

Per the NtK, the wording includes “we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you.” Would this not satisfy para 9(2)(e)(i) or would it need to be as an alternative to providing the name and address for the driver and so the wording included in the first paragraph isn’t compliant?

In terms of PPSCoP 8.1.2(e), again is it the wording that the letter says “if you appeal within 28 days,” and doesn’t clarify when that 28 days starts from? Despite it saying in the sentence before that appeals must be received within 28 days of the issue date of notice?

Apologies I just want to be clear on the law and how the notice is non-compliant.

Additionally, do I appeal, or write to them separately on the basis that the notice isn’t valid?

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #3 on: »
PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) states:

9(1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2) The notice must

(e) state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i) to pay the unpaid parking charges

Let's put that together:

The notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges.

This is the reasoning that the NtK (the notice) is not FULLY compliant with ALL the requirements of PoFA.

This shows how it is argued:

Quote
Under Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include a specific invitation to the keeper to pay the charge. This requirement serves to ensure that the keeper understands their liability and has a clear course of action.

The operator cannot simply rely on the fact that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is addressed to the Keeper to satisfy Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 of PoFA. The law explicitly requires a clear and specific invitation for the keeper to either:

• Pay the parking charge, or
• Provide the name and address of the driver (if the keeper was not the driver).

This is not an "implied" requirement; it must be explicitly stated. Merely inferring that the keeper is invited to pay because the notice is addressed to them does not meet the strict wording requirements of PoFA.

PoFA compliance requires specific wording. The law’s intention is to make the responsibilities of the Keeper clear and unambiguous. Phrases like "you are invited to pay this parking charge" or "you are required to do X, Y, Z" are examples of wording that PoFA expects.

If the notice only says, for example, "the Parking Charge is now payable" or "payment is required" without directly inviting the keeper to pay, this is insufficient under PoFA. The wording must link the keeper directly to the payment obligation in an unambiguous way.

The operator cannot claim keeper liability under PoFA if they fail to meet the explicit requirements of 9(2)(e)(i). This is a valid appeal (and defence) point, as courts and independent adjudicators should not rely on implied obligations instead of explicit compliance with statutory requirements.

Regarding the wording in PPSCoP section 8.1.2(e):

The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the recipient: that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected

I then goes on to state in Note 2 to that section:

NOTE 2: A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have
been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this
purpose, “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday
in England and Wales
.

We can take it that "delivered", "given" and "received" are the same thing.

The right to appeal is 28 days from receipt of the parking charge, not from the date of "issue" of the notice.

In your case, the notice was issued on Tuesday 14th January and it correctly states on the front that payment is to be made by Friday 14th February. However, look at the back of the NtK under "Appeals & transfer of liability". It incorrectly sates that all appeals must be received within 28 days of issue of the notice. That is clearly wrong.

This is a strong procedural point because it demonstrates non-compliance with the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) section 8.1.2(e). The appeal deadline has been misstated, which is a clear breach of PPSCoP 8.1.2(e). This misleads the recipient into believing they have less time to appeal than they actually do, which is both procedurally unfair and legally significant in both a POPLA appeal and a potential court defence.

The PPSCoP is a binding requirement for British Parking Association (BPA) and International Parking Community (IPC) members. Any breach of the Code undermines the legitimacy of the parking charge and the operator’s compliance with regulations. Since the appeal timeframe is an important consumer right, a misstatement of it is a substantial flaw in the operator’s case.

I could go on, but you get the gist, hopefully.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #4 on: »
Amazing - thank you so much! This is so comprehensive, I really appreciate the time spent setting this out for me.

So to confirm, as I have seen different approaches listed on MSE, do I use the appeal process to write this, or just contact them directly?

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #5 on: »
You simply appeal with the text I gave you earlier. It is going to be rejected but puts them on notice that they are not dealing with low-hanging fruit.

Simply make sure you do not select any dropdown menus or options that say that you are the driver. You are only appealing as the Keeper or "other".
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #6 on: »
Rejection letter received.

Next step is to appeal to POPLA.

Should I use the legal basis given in the chain for the body of my argument? Is there any other wording or advice you have that I should use?

Thank you for your help!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2025, 09:03:15 am by DWMB2 »

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #7 on: »
You should probably obscure some details - your name, address, reference number, POPLA code for example.

I love the scare tactics - £5,000 and 6-8 penalty points. They love to include these kind of things, don’t they?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2025, 08:49:12 am by jfollows »
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Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #8 on: »
Can you please redact the letter of your personal details and repost it please. Without seeing their reasoning, it is difficult to provide accurate advice.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #9 on: »
Apologies and thank you so much for flagging the details!

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Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #10 on: »
You have until 19th March to submit a POPLA appeal. Before you do that, you should submit a formal complaint to UKPA which they are obliged to acknowledge and respond to. Send the following to them at complaints@ukparkingadministration.com and CC in yourself.

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint Regarding Appeal Rejection and PPSCoP Non-Conformance

Dear UK Parking Administration,

I am submitting a formal complaint regarding your handling of my appeal for Parking Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number], issued on [Date]. Your appeal rejection contains multiple breaches of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), including a Level 4 non-conformance under Annex H, as well as breaches of PoFA 2012 Schedule 4. Additionally, your Notice to Keeper (NtK) contains procedural errors and non-compliances that invalidate any reliance on keeper liability, making your enforcement action unlawful.

This complaint serves as a precursor to a formal complaint to the British Parking Association (BPA) and the DVLA, as these breaches also invalidate your compliance with the KADOE contract for DVLA data access.

1. Deliberate Misrepresentation of Authority – PPSCoP Level 4 Non-Conformance

Your appeal rejection falsely claims that failing to name the driver could result in if the keeper names the driver and it subsequently emerges that the driver was not suitably insured at the material time, UKPA may consider referring the matter for criminal prosecution, a £5,000 fine, and 6–8 penalty points. This is entirely false, misleading, and a coercive attempt to pressure payment under duress.

• There is no legal obligation for the registered keeper to name the driver in a private parking matter.
• There is also no basis in law for a criminal prosecution, fine, or penalty points for failing to disclose a driver’s identity UKPA to suggest that it has the authority to instigate a criminal prosecution based on a civil parking charge.
• UKPA is falsely implying legal consequences that do not exist, which is a clear breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR 2008), Schedule 1, Paragraph 7.

Annex H of the PPSCoP defines a Level 4 non-conformance as:
“Deliberate misrepresentation of authority.”

This is a serious breach of consumer protection laws and should result in suspension or expulsion from the ATA.

2. Breach of KADOE Contract – Report to DVLA

The DVLA’s Keeper at Date of Event (KADOE) contract requires parking operators to fully comply with the PPSCoP. As your rejection letter and Notice to Keeper fail to comply with multiple PPSCoP provisions, your continued access to DVLA keeper data is unlawful.

Annex H explicitly states that breaches affecting compliance with PoFA and the PPSCoP may warrant action against an operator’s ability to request registered keeper data.

This will be formally reported to the DVLA for investigation into the validity of your KADOE contract and potential suspension of access to registered keeper data.

3. Misleading and Prohibited Terminology – PPSCoP Level 3 Non-Conformance

Your appeal rejection letter contains misleading statements suggesting that:

• A court will assume the keeper was the driver unless they name the actual driver.
• Failure to provide a driver’s details could result in legal consequences that do not exist.

Annex H of the PPSCoP explicitly classifies as a Level 3 non-conformance:
“Using prohibited or misleading terminology on correspondence and communication sent to motorists.”

Such misleading statements misrepresent legal liability and violate consumer protection laws, requiring sanction points by the BPA.

4. PoFA 2012 Breaches – Invalid Keeper Liability (PPSCoP Level 2 Non-Conformance)

Your Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) in the following ways:

Breach of PoFA 9(2)(a) – Failure to Specify the "Period of Parking"
• PoFA requires the NtK to explicitly state the "period of parking".
• Your NtK only provides ANPR entry and exit timestamps, which do not equate to the actual "period of parking."
It is not for the recipient to infer the duration—it must be clearly stated.

Breach of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) – Failure to Provide Proper Invitation to the Keeper
• The NtK must invite the keeper to either pay the charge or provide the driver's details.
• Your notice fails to issue this invitation in the prescribed format, meaning it cannot lawfully transfer liability to the keeper.

Annex H of the PPSCoP lists PoFA non-conformance as a sanctionable offence:

Level 1 Non-Conformance (2+ Sanction Points) – Sending a notice implying that they are pursuing the keeper using Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act when they are outside of the timescales.
Level 2 Non-Conformance (5+ Sanction Points) – Repeatedly sending parking charge notices implying that they are pursuing the keeper using Schedule 4 of PoFA when they are outside of the timescales.

Since your NtK fails fundamental PoFA requirements, UKPA is unlawfully pursuing keeper liability, in breach of the PPSCoP.

5. Procedural Misstatement of Appeal Deadline – PPSCoP Level 3 Non-Conformance

Your NtK incorrectly states that appeals must be received within 28 days of issue, rather than 28 days from receipt.

PPSCoP Section 8.1.2(e) states:
“The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the recipient: that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected.”

Your misstatement of the appeal deadline misleads motorists into believing they have less time to appeal than they actually do, violating their consumer rights.

Annex H classifies this as a Level 3 non-conformance, warranting 9 sanction points.

Formal Complaint Resolution Required

I request the following actions from you:

A written response acknowledging and retracting the false statements in your appeal rejection letter.

Confirmation that you will cease issuing misleading threats regarding keeper liability and criminal prosecution in future correspondence.

An explanation of how you intend to correct the multiple PPSCoP and PoFA breaches identified in your NtK.

Confirmation that you have reviewed your processes to ensure full compliance with the PPSCoP and the KADOE contract.

Failure to properly address this complaint will result in:

• A formal complaint to the British Parking Association (BPA) requesting an investigation and sanctions.
• A formal complaint to the DVLA highlighting your breach of the KADOE contract.
• A referral to Trading Standards for misleading commercial practices.

I expect a full written response within 14 days. If you fail to respond satisfactorily, I will escalate this matter without further notice.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]
[Your Contact Details][/b]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2025, 07:34:40 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #11 on: »
Your appeal rejection falsely claims that failing to name the driver could result in criminal prosecution, a £5,000 fine, and 6–8 penalty points.
That's not quite what it claims. It says that if they do name the driver, and it were to emerge that said driver was not suitably insured at the material time (how that'd emerge is anyone's guess), then they will consider referring the matter for criminal prosecution.

This is still dodgy and should be complained about, but it is materially different to claiming that failing to name the driver could result in prosecution, so I'm not sure the proposed wording of point #1 properly reflects what UKPA actually said.
Away from 29th March - 5th April
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Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #12 on: »
Edited above.

OP, do not copy and paste the strikeout text.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #13 on: »
Thank you all for your help and for the amendments - noted not to send the text which has been struck through.

Do I also adapt this and send the same thing to POPLA as well? Or do I wait for the complaint response from UKPA?

Re: PCN - The Colonnades Croydon - 31 Minutes over stay
« Reply #14 on: »
You have until 19th March to submit a POPLA appeal. Why the rush? Send the formal complaint to UKPC for now. They are required to respond within 14 days. If they haven't then you can use that against them also.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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