Author Topic: PCN - Private Land No Permit  (Read 2074 times)

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PCN - Private Land No Permit
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Hey all,

I’d like some objective opinions on a private parking ticket I’ve been given.
The layout:
I regularly shop at Seoul Plaza on a busy street. There are two vertical parking bays right outside, clearly marked with white lines. Just above those two bays, there’s space where a third car could fit, but this space isn’t marked with white lines. I parked in that spot.
There’s a sign on a pole next to it saying “Private Land – Parking Charge £100.” However, the same style of signs are also drilled into the wall of the shop itself (which is part of a larger building). Because of that, and the fact the two marked bays are obviously for customer use, I genuinely believed the unmarked space was also part of the shop’s customer parking. To make matters more confusing, I’d previously asked cashiers in the shop where to park and was told to park opposite the shop — which is exactly where these bays are.
The enforcement:
As soon as I pulled in, a guy in a van immediately started taking photos — one of my car, one of me exiting the vehicle, and even photos of me and my partner walking away towards the shop (back view, not face). He was taking pictures for total of 5 minutes (I left shop after 7 mins according to my bank payment and the start of his picture taking). If it had been in good faith, he could have just asked me to move, which I would have happily done.
The visit:
I was parked there for roughly 7 minutes while shopping at Seoul Plaza. I acted in good faith as a customer of the shop, using what I genuinely thought was customer parking.
The appeal so far:
I appealed to the parking company on the basis that:
* The layout is misleading (the unmarked space looks like part of the same bays).
* I was a genuine customer, shopping in good faith.
* Their operative acted predatory, taking photos instantly.
* Photographing me personally was unnecessary and intrusive.
They rejected it, stating “NO PERMIT, this space is not part of shop car park.” I’ve now escalated to the IAS, but as much as I keep reading about it, I realise tie IAS is useless and will side with the prive land owner.



Because I have appealed I have now lost the discount period.

Company issueing PCN: Premier Parking Enforcement Ltd.

I parked between the white line and pole:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4458258,-1.9320858,3a,75y,46.87h,56.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWECOZw1OP8HGkEJQvDtHtg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D33.34366392720621%26panoid%3DWECOZw1OP8HGkEJQvDtHtg%26yaw%3D46.866971643756756!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I would appreciate your advise.

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Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #1 on: »


Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #3 on: »
I presume in your appeal you identified the driver, because if you didn’t the PCN does not comply with the law (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4), specifically
Quote
9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

by not specifying a period of parking, and therefore they can not transfer liability from the driver to the registered keeper. But I suspect you told them who the driver was, in which case this avenue is closed.

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #4 on: »
I have stated I am a driver unfortunately. My close friend is a keeper, therefore I wanted to take the liability of her.

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #5 on: »
As I dig dipper I assume this is somewhat valid charge as much as I hate to admit. It seems like the grace period does not apply to the private land where permit is needed. In your perspective, is there any chance I could fight this location was somewhat misleading etc, or should I just accept the lose, regardless of how sneaky and cheeky the guy in a van was.

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #6 on: »
But the Notice to Keeper (NtK) was addressed to the Keeper. If you are not the Keeper, how can you appeal a charge not addressed to you? If the Keeper is not the driver, you have managed to FUBAR what would have been a simple process.

All the Keeper had to do was refer PPE to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram (1971) and carried on with their life. The Keeper could not be liable in law. Only the driver and until you blabbed your identity, they had no idea who that was.

Anyway, you are where you are and the IAS will not find in your favour. Do not pay anything. The IAS decision is not binding on you. You can safely ignore all subsequent debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying up out of ignorance and fear.

Come back when you eventually receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) and we can advise on how to proceed from there.

When you receive the IAS rejection of your appeal, you can have a bit of fun with this cabal of incestuous firm (IPC/IAS), you could try sending the following to The Independent Appeals Service (IAS) – Head of Adjudication/Head of Legal:

Quote
Subject: IAS decision – proof of assessor’s legal qualification and authorship

Dear Sirs,

PCN: [PCN ref]
Vehicle: [VRM]
Site/Date: [Site / Date]

Your decision letter asserts that the adjudicator is “legally qualified (a barrister or solicitor)”. You also rely on the proposition that “it is a criminal offence to impersonate a solicitor”, yet the adjudicator remains anonymous. That position is untenable. A representation about professional status must be capable of verification.

Accordingly, please provide—within 14 days—verifiable proof of the decision-maker’s legal qualification and authorship in this case, or confirm that the statement about “legally qualified” assessors is not relied upon in relation to this decision.

Required minimum particulars (this case only):
• The full name of the adjudicator who decided my appeal.
• Whether they are a solicitor or barrister.
• Their regulator and public register details sufficient for independent verification:
• If a solicitor: SRA roll number and current practising status on the SRA register (on the date of decision).
• If a barrister: BSB register entry and current practising status (on the date of decision).
• A statement signed by your Head of Legal/Head of Adjudication confirming that the named individual personally determined this appeal and that their practising status (above) was valid on the decision date.
• Your conflicts policy and confirmation that no conflict of interest existed for the named adjudicator in relation to the operator.

If you maintain a policy of anonymity, then at the very least provide a signed attestation from your Head of Legal/Head of Adjudication (with their own SRA/BSB registration details) certifying that:
• The named decision-maker is identified on your internal records;
• That person is (and was on the decision date) a current solicitor or barrister; and
• They personally authored the decision in my case.

Please note: a generic assertion that “the IAS has seen” qualifications, or reliance on undisclosed material, is insufficient. A representation that an adjudicator is “legally qualified” is a specific, verifiable factual claim. If it cannot be independently verified for the individual who decided this case, it risks constituting a misleading commercial practice under the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024 (DMCC, Part 4). The CMA can now directly enforce consumer law and impose significant penalties (including up to 10% of global turnover) for breaches. I therefore require verifiable particulars of the decision-maker’s legal qualification, or your explicit withdrawal of that representation in this case.

If you refuse disclosure, please state the precise legal basis for refusal and whether you contend that anonymisation overrides the need to substantiate a professional status claim relied upon in the decision. In that event, please also confirm whether IAS withdraws or disapplies the “legally qualified” claim in relation to my case.

Absent satisfactory verification, I reserve my position to:
• refer this to the Competition and Markets Authority for potential enforcement under the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024 (misleading commercial practices);
• notify the SRA or BSB (as applicable) if professional status has been misrepresented;
• make a report to Trading Standards regarding misleading claims presented to consumers; and
• place your response (or non-response) before the court if proceedings are issued.

Please provide the verification requested within 14 days or confirm that you withdraw the “legally qualified adjudicator” representation in this case.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Registered Keeper
« Last Edit: October 02, 2025, 03:35:42 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you, I am a bit hot headed and should have refer to here before making any appeals. I assume when debt get passed onto debt collectors the total amount will increase. Is this amount going to be a new total of what they would be potentially asking for to settle, or once I receive the LoC the original charge amount applies? I am just wondering as since the appeal my amount increased by £40 instantly, hence I don't want to end up having £100 + fees of leeching debt collector.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2025, 03:57:37 pm by riviera »

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #8 on: »
You won't be paying a penny of you just follow the advice.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #9 on: »
That's assuring.

 Sorry to ask so many questions, but once IAS rule in favour of them I guess I will have 28 days to pay. Then I should not pay them anything, and after that period do they always pass onto the debt collectors? If so, I know you said to ignore the letters, but what in case they appear at my door step? I found that these answers , are they any good?:

1. “This matter is in dispute. You have no authority here. Please leave immediately.”
2. “I will only deal with this in writing. I do not give you permission to be on my property. Please leave.”

Also is there a chance they just ignore it and don't pass it onto debt collectors or is it very common tactic?
Is there certain period of time for debt collector to try to get the money of me before they issue LoC?
How often these people take others to court from your experience? I heard they tend to give up on the people that fight their case and willing to go to court, if the intimidation does not work.

That’s reassuring.

Sorry for all the questions, but once the IAS rules in their favour, I guess I will be issued with 28 days to pay.  I know you said to not pay anything so I will take that advice — Do they then always pass the case on to debt collectors?

You mentioned ignoring debt collector letters, but what if someone actually turned up at my doorstep? I came across a couple of suggested responses — do these sound right?

“This matter is in dispute. You have no authority here. Please leave immediately.”

“I will only deal with this in writing. I do not give you permission to be on my property. Please leave.”

Also, is there a chance they simply drop it without sending it to debt collectors, or is passing it on their usual procedure?

Is there a set time limit for debt collectors to chase me before a Letter of Claim would be issued? And in your experience, how often do these companies actually take people to court? I’ve heard they often back off when someone shows they’re willing to fight rather than give in to intimidation.

Even if I was in the wrong in the legal point of view, do you believe I should be fighting this case?


Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #10 on: »
Debt collectors will not appear at your door. They will send letters, that's it.

The parking company have up to 6 years from the date of the parking event to issue a court claim, but it would be very unusual to take that long. 12/18 months is not unusual.

Quote
And in your experience, how often do these companies actually take people to court?
The company in this case aren't one of the bigger ones so it's hard to say for them specifically. My general advice is to presume every case will go to court and prepare accordingly. If it doesn't, great. If it does, you're prepared, up for the fight, and know what you're dealing with. We cannot offer any guarantees but we have a good success rate.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2025, 05:01:36 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote
Why no bailiff can knock on your door

1. County Court Judgment (CCJ):

• A bailiff (enforcement agent) can only get involved after a creditor has obtained a CCJ against you in a county court.
• If the CCJ is under £600, the creditor cannot transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO). Instead, enforcement would remain under the county court's jurisdiction.

2. Threshold for High Court Enforcement:

• If a CCJ is over £600 (including fees and interest), the creditor can transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by an HCEO. This is a common method because HCEOs tend to be more effective at recovering money.

3. Cost-Benefit Analysis for Creditors:

• For CCJs under £600, creditors may find it uneconomical to pursue enforcement through county court bailiffs, as they are generally slower and less effective than HCEOs.
• As a result, creditors may opt not to escalate enforcement for small amounts.

4. Private Parking Charges and Bailiffs:

• In the context of private parking charges, no bailiff action can occur unless the parking operator has gone to court, won a case, obtained a CCJ, and you fail to pay the judgment within the stipulated time (usually 30 days).

So, no bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #12 on: »
That make sense thanks. I couldn't help myself to visit the "crime scene" and read all the signs. I have found that the 2 white bays also have a private land sign and it states that the parking is for seoul plaza customers which I was. Unfortunately it states clearly that you have to park in the two marked areas. From far It looks like all the other signs that were there. There is another sign below it, which states "Only 2 parking spaced available: Seoul plaza customers only" However it is hang quite low, which was then obstructed by another car at the time of my visit. I am unsure whether this "evidence" will help me or work in their favour. What do you guys think? Is this helpful at all?

The one I park next to:
https://ibb.co/QGfp2jy

In between two legit parking spaces:
https://ibb.co/39BwXw6n

The one obstructed during my visit by a higher car:
https://ibb.co/d43qrTFk

Car picture:
https://ibb.co/TNtMdYw

the one hanged opposite parking spaces on the shop wall:
https://ibb.co/JWZh45XK




Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #13 on: »
What have Seoul Plaza said about it? I am assuming that if you were customer, they would not want to lose your business because of a speculative invoice from a third party, unregulated skank parking firm. If they have contracted PPE to manage the parking, they can tell them to cancel a PCN for a genuine customer. Otherwise, you, your fiends, family and any acquaintances can boycott them and take your business elsewhere.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - Private Land No Permit
« Reply #14 on: »
Haven't thought of it that way. I will ask my partner, as she know a cashier that was recently hired. Maybe she will be able to help.