PCN issued after JustPark booking

PCN issued after JustPark booking
Posted by mondo321 on 29 Dec, 2023 22:24
My car was recently parked in a space close to Heathrow I had booked with JustPark. When I arrived, the entry barrier was up, the car park nearly full and many cars with PCN's attached.

Feeling worried, I called JustPark who checked my booking and said it was correct and that I shouldn't worry about the barrier and that the other cars had probably parked without payment. He also said three other cars had also parked there that day with JustPark.

When I returned after 5 days, there were 3 x PCN's on the car from NPM.

I immediately sent them to JustPark who said to appeal to NPM and they would sort it out between them. However, NPM replied stating there was no contract with JustPark and I needed to pay the 3 x PCN before 01 Jan.

I have asked JustPark why they were selling the space when there appeared to be no contract with the space owner. They have acknowledged my emails but not replied in detail.

If it is true that JustPark has no agreement for the space (and they have now removed it from their website & app) it would appear that NPM have good grounds for the 3 x PCN and I have very little basis for an appeal.

My thinking is to go ahead & pay the 3 x £60 fee and then claim the same + expenses from JustPark.

Has anyone successfully made a small claim against JustPark?

Mondo

#1 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 30 Dec, 2023 00:04
We need to see some documents here. You describe 3 PCNs, presumably 3 appeals and responses from the parking company, and correspondence with JustPark. We need to see copies of all of these please, with personal info redacted.

It'd also be useful to see the booking confirmation, a copy of the JustPark terms and conditions that you agreed to on booking, and a Google Maps link to the car park in question.

Finally photos of the signage in the car park would be useful.

I don't think we can offer any advice, particularly any that might involve you suing JustPark, without more info to go off.

#2 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 30 Dec, 2023 15:07
Many thanks for your reply.

I don’t think my argument is with NPM- from reading through everything, they seem to have behaved correctly- the signage is there, they have photographs of my car with the signage and they have replied to my correspondence.

For me, the bigger problem is with JustPark selling me something it would appear they had no right to sell me, hence my question: has anybody issued a claim against JustPark?

#3 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 30 Dec, 2023 15:33
If you're sure that NPM's charge and set up is fully compliant with the IPC's Code of Practice, the signage contains suitable provisions to create a binding contract, and that they have fully complied with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (if the driver hasn't been revealed) then fair enough.

The honest answer to your question is "I don't know". We haven't seen anyone do so on this forum, whether someone has elsewhere we don't know.

What is your end goal here? To avoid being out of pocket, or to take on JustPark? If the former, then it's worth us exploring all possible options, hence the info requested above.

#4 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 30 Dec, 2023 22:49
I would like to recover the 3 x PCN charge + the parking fee +two hours of time I spent on this and the LIP cost.

I can’t be the first person this has happened to & I’m surprised nobody else has issued the claim against JustPark.

I think it’s more straightforward to issue a claim against JustPark, rather than try to defend account case against NPM.

There was clearly a contract between myself and JustPark to provide the parking space and they failed to do this, therefore a breach of contract would seem to have occurred.

I could also list the owner of the space as a second defendant.

#5 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 30 Dec, 2023 22:58
Quote
I’m surprised nobody else has issued the claim against JustPark.
They might have done. That the issue hasn't arisen in the fairly brief time this forum has existed doesn't mean it hasn't arisen ever. There may be examples of cases elsewhere, such as PePiPoo or the MSE Forum.

Quote
I think it’s more straightforward to issue a claim against JustPark, rather than try to defend account case against NPM.
Possibly - we've not seen any of the details of NPM's case in order to advice on the strength of it.

Let us know if there are any specific issues, or courses of action you'd like advice on and we can try to help. If you're going down the route of action against JustPark then at a minimum we'd need to see the terms of the contract you entered with them to offer any advice in that regard, and ideally all of the information I requested earlier. One thing you'd need to check is whether JustPark are claiming to simply act on behalf of the owner of the car park, facilitating a contract between you and the owner.

#6 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 30 Dec, 2023 23:23
" If you're going down the route of action against JustPark then at a minimum we'd need to see the terms of the contract you entered with them to offer any advice in that regard, and ideally all of the information I requested earlier. One thing you'd need to check is whether JustPark are claiming to simply act on behalf of the owner of the car park, facilitating a contract between you and the owner."

This will be the problem- their T&C's state:

How does this agreement work?
By creating a JustPark account you agree to be bound by these JustPark service terms and conditions together with the Privacy Policy. These documents govern your use of the App, the Services and your account and are applicable to your use of the App and Services generally every Parking Session you create.
When you use the Service we are providing you with the means to enter into individual, direct contracts with the Parking Providers to park in the Parking Spaces and we facilitate the payment for your use of the Parking Space provided by the Parking Providers. We are not a party to the contracts between you and the Parking Providers and will not be liable to you or any third party in relation to the Parking Space other than in accordance with these terms.

#7 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 30 Dec, 2023 23:42
Which potentially brings the car park owner, and thus NPM, who the owner has hired to act on their behalf, very much into the picture regarding the dispute.

Hence my initial request to see the relevant information relating to car park, the charges, and the correspondence between all the parties.

#8 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 31 Dec, 2023 00:21
That's a fair point- also, I suspect the owner will be elusive to track down. The is one of the PCN's (attached)

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#9 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 31 Dec, 2023 00:22
the main part

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#10 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 31 Dec, 2023 00:23
And the first part

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#11 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 31 Dec, 2023 00:26
Signage

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#12 Reply
Posted by H C Andersen on 31 Dec, 2023 10:40
OP, you have been asked repeatedly to post your 'appeal' to NPM, their reply(ies) and your correspondence with JustPark.

So far we've seen none of the above. Nosy Parker researched what appear to be JP's terms, but we need to see your correspondence.

You are asking the impossible of us without hard, objective facts. OP narrative, summaries and conclusions are a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, basic contract issues:
You have to attempt to mitigate your losses. Therefore you need to exhaust the creditor's(NPM) claims against you. If their response(s) state that you've reached the end of their internal procedures then, with our assistance, you need to decide whether to have their claim arbitrated. As this would be for the full charge in each case you would have to assess whether taking this further would be a sensible attempt to mitigate your losses. If, as you say but we've yet to see, NPM's case is sound then you should pay at the discount.

Of course you can claim against JP, it's NOT a small claims case or indeed any type of case, it's simply you explaining to JP what's gone wrong and what you've done in an attempt to resolve matters. If this were to fail then you would issue a Letter of Claim and formalise matters prior to, potentially, commencing proceedings.

But we need facts in the form of correspondence, not your summaries.

#13 Reply
Posted by mondo321 on 01 Jan, 2024 11:34
So this is my initial letter to NPM:

Dear Sirs,

Ref: 14029 / NPM / JustPay

Please see attached for 3 x PCN issued on 25/11/23, 27/11/23 & 29/11/23.

These were placed on my car whilst it was parked at Axis House, 242 Bath Road 242 Bath Road Hayes UB3 5AY.

I had pre-booked the parking with JustPay, for the period 24-29 Nov 23 inclusive (see attached).

Please can you explain why you have decided to issue these PCN’s when the space had been paid for?

I look forward to your response within the next 14 days.

Their reply is attached.

It's much easier to issue a claim than defend one, hence my thinking to pay the money and then reclaim from JustPark & the site owner as a second defendant.

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#14 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 01 Jan, 2024 14:31
Quote from: mondo321 on 01 Jan, 2024 11:34
It's much easier to issue a claim than defend one
Issuing a claim is trivial, the difficult part is winning one.

We could still do with seeing the booking confirmation from JustPark.