Author Topic: PCN Chester Private Car Park  (Read 16206 times)

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #45 on: »
Quote
The Appellant cannot take advantage of the scheme when it benefits them and disregard it when it does not.
I'm not sure begrudgingly displaying a permit in order to avoid the hassle of receiving an ill-founded ticket every 24 hours can reasonably be considered deriving any 'advantage' from the scheme. The best way to manage residential bays would be to install lockable bollards in each space, with residents issued a key. The 'problem' is that would involve the landlords spending money, unlike bringing in a parking company to dole out PCNs.

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #46 on: »
Thank you for the detailed response and re-assurance, it's really appreciated. I will wait for the LoC and get in touch. 

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #47 on: »
I've received my first letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd (DCBL) asking for £170, can I safely assume I can throw this into my recycling bag?

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #48 on: »
Yes.

Just ignore all the debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

Come back when you get a Letter of Claim (LoC).
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #49 on: »
This one seems to be churning through their system, today I received a letter from ELMS Legal titled 'URGENT: NOTIFICATION OF INSTRUCTION', I can't seem to find an option to attach images.

I'm assuming I should just 'file' it away until I get a Letter of Claim?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2025, 03:25:05 pm by 3Sh3roo »

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #50 on: »

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #51 on: »
Thanks, link shared below:

https://imgur.com/a/aD6WYV9

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #52 on: »
It's just a debt recovery letter. You can file other or shred it and use it as hamster bedding.

It is a Letter of Claim (LoC) that you are waiting for.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #53 on: »
Today by post I received a 'Letter Before Claim', I'm assuming this is the same as LoC?

https://ibb.co/CpsW8kb2

https://ibb.co/PZnPdJzX
« Last Edit: October 13, 2025, 06:43:53 pm by 3Sh3roo »

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #54 on: »
Respond with the following:

Quote
Subject: Response to your Letter of Claim – Ref: [insert ELMS reference]

Dear Sirs,

I write regarding your Letter Before Claim dated 7 October 2025 (client: Vehicle Control Services Ltd) concerning an alleged parking charge at Signal Court Residential Car Park on 16/04/2025 at 17:43, for which you demand £170.00.

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of the evidence your client places reliance upon, putting it in clear breach of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a supposed firm of solicitors, one would expect you to comply with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You may wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), require the exchange of sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.
Your template letter refers to a “contract” yet encloses none. That omission undermines the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It is not possible to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue while you decline to furnish the very document you purport to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with para 3.1(a), I shall seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required. Accordingly, please provide:
1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) and any notice chain relied upon to assert PoFA 2012 liability.
2. A copy of the contract you allege exists between your client and the driver, being an actual photograph of the sign(s) in place on the material date (not a stock image), together with a site plan showing the sign locations.
3. The precise wording of the clause(s) allegedly breached.
4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner evidencing standing/authority to enforce and to litigate.
5. A breakdown of the sums claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” add-on includes VAT.

I am entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction, and I require it to meet my own obligation under paragraph 6(b).

If you fail to provide the above, I will treat that as non-compliance with the PAPDC and Pre-Action Conduct and will raise a formal complaint to the SRA regarding your conduct. I reserve the right to place this correspondence before the Court and to seek appropriate sanctions and costs (including, where appropriate, a stay and/or other case management orders).

Until your client complies and provides the requested material, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim or to consider my position. It would be premature and a waste of costs and court time to issue proceedings. Should you do so, I will seek immediate case management relief pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order compelling provision of the above.

Please note, I will not engage with any web portal; I will only respond by email or post.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
[Your postal address]
[Your email address]
[Vehicle registration: XXXX XXX]
[PCN reference (if known): __________]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #55 on: »
Thank you so much for this, I'll have to send it as a letter as they have not provided an email address for correspondence.


Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #56 on: »
They have this email address on their website: info@elmslegal.co.uk

Use that and make sure you CC yourself in any correspondence.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #57 on: »
Got the following email response today:

---------
Good afternoon

Thank you for your email.

Further to your request I have attached copies of the Notice To Keeper sent on 24/04/2025, copies of the signage in situ on the day of the contravention, containing the Terms and Conditions for parking at this site.

I have requested from our client copies of the Site Plan and Landowner Contract and will forward these once received. I have also requested a separate copy of the signage so the Terms and Conditions are clearer for you.

I can advise that the £170.00 claimed is the £100.00 Charge for being parked in breach of the Terms advertised, and £70.00 is Debt Recovery Fee which does not contain VAT.

I have placed this matter on hold until 14/11/2025 to allow time for you to review in the information provided, receive the information requested and advise us of anything further required.



Kind Regards
 
Angie Bailey
 
ELMS Legal Limited
 
----------

See attachments below:

https://ibb.co/gxLXFJJ
https://ibb.co/LzcztBZj


 

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #58 on: »
DO NOT redact any dates or times from the NtK.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #59 on: »
You can reply to Angie Bailey with the following (CC yourself):

Quote
Subject: Signal Court (16/04/2025) — your admission re: £70 “debt recovery fee”

Dear Ms Bailey,

Thank you for your email of [insert date].

You state that your client’s claim of £170 is made up of a £100 alleged parking charge and a £70 “debt recovery fee”, and you expressly confirm that the £70 “does not contain VAT”.

I put you on formal notice that this admission is highly material. Your confirmation that the £70 is not VAT-inclusive tends to show that no genuine third-party recovery cost has been incurred and that the £70 is an internal uplift or surcharge rather than a legitimate charge for services rendered by an independent supplier. I will rely on that admission as evidence in any subsequent proceedings and in any complaint I make about your client’s conduct (including as appropriate to the SRA and to any regulatory or industry body).

Accordingly, and without prejudice:
Please provide, by close of business [insert date — e.g. 7 days from receipt], the following documentary proof:
a. A copy of any invoice(s) or receipted bills from the third-party debt recovery agent said to have been engaged, showing the amount invoiced and the VAT treatment.
b. A bank statement or remittance showing payment of those invoice(s) by your client (so the charge was actually incurred).
c. Full particulars showing how the £70 figure was calculated (including any internal ledger entries, supplier contract, or allocation methodology).
d. A statement of truth from your client confirming whether the £70 represents a sum paid to a third party, and if so naming that third party and confirming the amount actually paid.

If you cannot provide the documents requested above, confirm in writing that your client will not seek to recover the £70 “debt recovery fee” (or any similar uplift) in any claim it issues or pursues.

If you do seek to pursue the £70 without producing verifiable evidence that it represents an actual third-party cost, I reserve the right to:
• Treat the £70 as an improper, non-recoverable uplift and apply to the Court for appropriate case management orders (including strike-out and/or an order for costs if proceedings follow); and
• Rely on your admission when making formal complaints to the SRA and any relevant industry body and when advancing any submissions on conduct, proportionality and reasonableness.

This correspondence is without prejudice to my other rights and defences. I will consider your client’s position regarding the principal sum once you have provided the full evidence requested.

Yours faithfully

[Your name]
[Contact details]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain