Author Topic: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time  (Read 5893 times)

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Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #15 on: »
Why didn’t you make a POPLA appeal? That would have shown them you are not a pushover. You didn’t.

What evidence to back their claim for the alleged breach of contract did they include with the LoC? We are not interest3 in any of the enclosed forms that would ha been with it and you can discard those.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #16 on: »
Sorry to bump, but I’m keen to know what folks advise; should I communicate my intent to take this to court, or ignore this letter?

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #17 on: »
It might help to answer the questions in the previous post.

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #18 on: »
Apologies; for some reason neither of the  previous replies were showing when I refreshed the thread - and I only found these by chance going through my junk folder and finding a notification. Even my ‘bump’ message wasn’t showing. Will have to close tab and restart in future.

Thank you for the responses.

As I described previously, I didn’t make a POPLA appeal because, having been through the PPSSCoP, it wasn’t readily apparent to me what basis I had to appeal. I didn’t have a personal picture of signage, and—annoyingly—when I returned to take pics both the payment machine and signage had been replaced with new models, so I couldn’t make a claim on the basis of signage. Thankfully I have pics of the broken machine from the day, at least.

 This also meant I couldn’t be sure whether section 6.1.2 was relevant to my case: so I didn’t have a concrete basis for appeal.

Since I had no concrete challenge, and my research on this site made it clear POPLA strictly consider only considerations of the guidelines, it seemed a fruitless exercise.

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #19 on: »
You ALWAYS make a POPLA appeal. What about putting the operator to strict proof that they had a valid and contemporaneous contract flowing from the landowner that permits them to issue PCNs in their own name? What about putting them to strict proof that all their signs conform to the respective CoP?

Anyway, it is too late for that now.

Why has the charge gone from £100 to £130? On what legal basis have they added £30? Do the signs at the location mention this £30? The signs are the 'contract" the driver agreed to. If the contract does not mention that the charge is £100 plus an added £30, then it is a false claim.

You have only shown us the cover page of the LoC. What evidence for the claim did they include with the letter? Once we know that information, we can better advise on what you should respond with.

For example, did they include any of the following with the LoC?

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that confirms any PoFA 2012 liability
2. A copy of the contract (or contracts) they allege exists between your them and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign they contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image
3. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that they allege to have been breached
4. The written agreement between their client and the landowner, establishing standing/authority to enforce
5. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and what the added £30 fee is for and whether it includes VAT

I can go on but I think you may get the gist.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #20 on: »
If LoC refers to the original letter of claim (pardon my ignorance) then the evidence provided was timestamped ANPR pics of the car entering and leaving the car park.

I’m sorry if that isn’t what is being asked!

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #21 on: »
Crumbs, sorry - I was typing and posting that last reply while yours was coming through.

The section ‘Parking Charge Information’ states:

‘The signage which is clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park, stated that this is private land and that the car park is managed by Parkingeye Ltd. In addition the signage states that, as a paid parking car park, a Parking Charge is applicable if the motorist fails to make the appropriate tariff payment. The signage also contains further terms and conditions associated with this car park by which those who park in the car park agree to be bound.

By either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted, in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the Parking Charge is now payable to Parkingeye Ltd (as the creditor).’

That’s as far as supporting evidence goes.

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #22 on: »
No. You received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which was issued as a Notice to Keeper (NtK). Because your appeal was not upheld, they say you owe them a debt. Before they can issue a claim for that alleged debt in the county court, they are required, under the Pre Action Protocols for Debt Claims (PAPDC) to issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) which details the reason they are alleging you owe them a debt and they must give you 30 days to respond before they can issue the actual claim.

You have shown us only the cover letter part of the LoC. What else have they said about the alleged debt and why it is owed? We don't need to know about any other forms that were included with the LoC and you can safely discard those forms.

So, the LoC refers to the PCN, not any other LoC.

You can respond to the LoC with the following:

Quote
Your ref: [PCN/Ref]
Site: Challaborough Bay Pay & Display, Kingsbridge
Date of your Letter Before Claim: 29 August 2025

By email and post: enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

ParkingEye Ltd, PO Box 117, Blyth, NE24 9EJ

Subject: Response to your Letter Before County Court Claim – figures queried and documents required

Dear ParkingEye Enforcement Team,

I acknowledge receipt of your Letter Before County Court Claim. Liability is denied.

Your figures are incoherent. You say the principal sum is £100, assert that under the Private Parking Single Code of Practice you are “entitled to add up to £70 to cover the cost of recovering a debt”, then declare an “additional fee of £30… now due” and demand £130. Identify precisely what the £30 represents, the legal basis for it, and whether VAT is included. If you contend that any part of this is a “debt recovery” add-on, explain why such a bolt-on is not an impermissible attempt at double recovery given that ParkingEye’s business model and the approved charge already include the cost of running your scheme. Confirm also whether you intend to pursue any sum beyond the principal, the fixed court fee and the fixed, permitted legal representative’s costs on issue.

Further, you must state the legal character of the £100: do you claim it as consideration under a contractual term, or as damages for breach? Your letter is silent on this, yet it is fundamental to any cause of action.

Please now provide the following, in full, legible and unredacted, within 30 days. I will not use your web portal.

1. A complete copy of the original Notice to Keeper exactly as served (all pages and images), including the wording relied upon to invoke Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and proof of service/delivery dates.
2. A contemporaneous, date-stamped photograph of the actual terms signage at the location on the material date (not artwork or a stock image) showing the full wording, the parking charge amount, the entrance signs and the signs’ positions relative to the bay/route used.
3. The exact clause(s) of the terms you say were in force and that you allege were breached, set out verbatim and cross-referenced to the signage supplied, together with clarification of whether you plead breach of contract, trespass, or a contractual sum by performance.
4. The written agreement in force on the material date between the landowner (or party with title) and ParkingEye, showing the land description and boundaries, commencement/expiry, consideration, and the express authority (if any) to issue PCNs, to pursue proceedings in your own name, and to recover the sums now claimed.
5. A full breakdown of all sums now claimed, identifying the legal basis for each head of loss or sum, whether the principal is consideration or damages, and whether any alleged “debt recovery” element attracts VAT. If you rely on any trade association code for add-ons, identify the specific provision and explain how it creates a recoverable legal entitlement.

If you commence proceedings without first addressing the above and rectifying the inconsistencies in your figures, I will draw this letter to the court’s attention and seek sanctions for unreasonable conduct, including costs pursuant to CPR 27.14(2)(g).

All future correspondence should be sent by post to my address and/or by email to [your email]. I will not engage with third-party debt collection agents.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #23 on: »
That is wonderful, thank you so much. I apologise for my ignorance.

Very grateful for your advice.

I will get that done ASAP.

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #24 on: »
So I received a reply today which I will post below. They didn’t answer or provide a number of the requests, should I request them again or just note to them that they have failed to provide?

And I don’t know if they are being intentionally obtuse at the end.

Many thanks guys.

Parkingeye reply:

 We write further to your recent correspondence which concerned the above referenced Parking Charge. We recently sent you a Letter Before Claim which informed you that this Parking Charge remains outstanding and had now been processed for further action.
 
On the 25/05/2025 at 15:49 the vehicle with registration PF68LNN was captured by Parkingeye’s Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras entering the car park at Challaborough Bay Pay & Display Kingsbridge. The vehicle was subsequently captured exiting the car park at 16:06.
 
The vehicle remained onsite for 16 minutes and the required parking tariff was not purchased. Therefore, there was a breach of the terms and conditions and a Parking Charge was issued in accordance with the signage.
 
We note from your reply to our Letter Before Claim that you dispute the outstanding sum. We can confirm that we have now reviewed your correspondence but it is our position that the Parking Charge remains due.
 
We can confirm that £130 remains outstanding and that full payment is required within the next 14 days to prevent further action.
 
Please find a breakdown of costs below:
 
Parking Charge full amount - £100
LBCC administration fee - £30
 
We are prepared to take legal action if necessary and should court proceedings be issued, further costs will be incurred. These will include, but are not limited to, the court claim issue fee and the solicitors costs referred to within the Letter Before Claim.
 
Please find a copy of the Parking Charge Notice attached, as requested.

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #25 on: »
Respond with:

Quote
Your ref: [PCN/Ref]
Site: Challaborough Bay Pay & Display, Kingsbridge
Date of your Letter Before Claim: 29 August 2025
By email: enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

Subject: Your response to my LBC reply – continuing dispute, defective figures and missing documents

Dear ParkingEye Enforcement Team,

Liability remains denied.
Your latest letter does not cure the defects I identified. You have still failed to provide (i) contemporaneous photographs of the actual signage at the location on the material date, (ii) the exact clause(s) you say were breached, and (iii) the landowner contract proving your standing to issue charges and to litigate in your own name. Those documents were expressly requested and are required if you intend to rely on them. Provide them within 30 days. I will not use a web portal.

Your ANPR timings are misconceived. You say ANPR captured entry at 15:49 and exit at 16:06. That is 17 minutes between cameras, not 16. In any event, ANPR timestamps do not equate to a “period of parking”. They include circulation time, the time required to read and consider terms, and lawful consideration/grace periods mandated by industry codes. If you dispute this, point me to your pleaded legal basis and to the precise wording on the signs you say formed the contract that a court will be asked to enforce. If you contend a breach, identify the exact term and the factual conduct you say breached it.
You still refuse to identify the legal character of the £100. Confirm whether you claim £100 as consideration under a contractual term or as damages for breach. You must choose a cause of action.

Your £30 “LBCC administration fee” is not recoverable. It is a pre-issue overhead that is already priced into the parking charge. It is a classic example of double recovery and is irrecoverable on the small claims track where only fixed costs apply. If you believe otherwise, identify the statute or rule that entitles you to recover a separate £30 administration sum pre-issue and explain how that sits with CPR 27.14 and the established prohibition on adding “debt recovery” or administrative uplifts to a ParkingEye charge approved as a single, inclusive sum. State whether VAT is chargeable on your £30 and, if not, why not.

You say a copy of the NtK is attached. If you intend to rely on PoFA Schedule 4, identify where the NtK states a “period of parking” rather than mere ANPR in/out times, and confirm the dates and method of service relied upon for the statutory presumption of delivery.

For the avoidance of doubt, the claim is disputed on fact and law. If you issue proceedings without first supplying the missing documents and without correcting your incoherent and inflated figures, I will draw this correspondence to the court’s attention and seek appropriate sanctions for unreasonable conduct, including costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g).

I expect the three missing items (signage photographs as actually displayed on the material date, the verbatim clause(s) you say were breached, and full landowner authority) together with clear answers to the points above within 30 days. I will then respond further. I will not engage with third-party debt collectors.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Postal address]
[Email]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #26 on: »
Smashing, thank you!

I’ll get that gone tomorrow. Your continued help is very much appreciated!

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #27 on: »
So I received the following reply this week:

‘Reference: Parking Charge Notice -

Dear Sir / Madam,
We write regarding the above referenced Parking Charge, which concerned a breach of
the parking terms and conditions on the 25 May 2025 at Challaborough Bay Pay &
Display Kingsbridge, and your recent correspondence received in relation to the same.
We can confirm that we have now reviewed your recent correspondence, but we maintain
our position that the full amount of the Parking Charge remains outstanding and that we
have been unable to reach an agreement in respect of the same via the Reply Form.
We now require full payment of the outstanding sum of £130.00 within the next 14 days or
legal action will be taken. Should court proceedings be issued, further costs will be
incurred. These will include, but are not limited to, the court claim issue fee and the
solicitors costs referred to within the LBCCC.
Yours faithfully,
Parkingeye Team
If you wish to make payment, you can do so by telephoning our offices on 0330 555
4444, by visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk, or by posting a cheque/postal order to the
below address. Please note that you must quote the above Parking Charge reference on
the reverse of the cheque or postal order.

Further Information
Whilst we appreciate that receiving a parking charge may be inconvenient, we wish to
confirm that we will not be making payment of the sum referred to within your
correspondence.
You have not formed a legally binding contract with Parkingeye under which you have
acquired any right to invoice Parkingeye or seek payment for goods or services, and the
sum sought is therefore rejected.’

I’m a little baffled about their reference to a sum I am claiming, and can only presume they didn’t read the last reply properly, and are references potential damages referred to.

They haven’t bothered to provide or excuse providing any of the evidence I asked for which they will rely on, and this is the second time I’ve requested, and given 30 days.

I don’t know whether to quote the specific legislation to them re the first point, or just ask them what they are talking about.

Re the continued absence of the provision of their authority etc; do I request them again, and give them even more time, or do I use this as evidence of their lack of cooperation/ disingenuity in this matter?

It seems as though whoever replied either doesn’t understand what’s being asked, didn’t read it properly, or is being intentionally obtuse/ disdainful.

Any advice — as always - is gratefully appreciated.

Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #28 on: »
Their “we will not be making payment of the sum referred to within your correspondence” is nonsense. You didn’t invoice them for anything. Typical boilerplate paragraph dropped into the wrong template.

Send one final, short chaser that (a) corrects their “sum you claim” error, (b) records that they’ve twice ignored core PAPDC-relevant document requests, and (c) gives a final, reasonable window (14 days) to produce the three key items (signage as displayed on the day, the exact clause allegedly breached, and landowner authority). Make clear you won’t grant further extensions and will seek CPR 27.14(2)(g) costs for unreasonable conduct if they issue without providing them.

Do not keep rolling 30-day extensions. One clear ultimatum is enough. If they still don’t comply and then issue, you use their non-cooperation to support costs and case management orders.

Email the following response and CC yourself:

Quote
Your ref: [PCN/Ref]
Site: Challaborough Bay Pay & Display, Kingsbridge
Date of your latest letter: [insert date]
By email: enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

Subject: Your latest LBC correspondence – non-response to document requests and incorrect “sum claimed” assertion
Dear ParkingEye,

Your letter states you “will not be making payment of the sum referred to within [my] correspondence.” I have made no demand for payment of any sum from ParkingEye. Please correct your records and stop repeating this irrelevant template paragraph.

You have now twice failed to provide the core documents I requested that you will rely upon. For the final time before proceedings, provide within 14 days:
a) Contemporaneous, date-stamped photographs of the actual entrance and terms signage as displayed on the material date, at driver eye height and showing location relative to the bay/route used (not artwork/stock images).
b) The exact clause(s) you say were in force and allegedly breached, set out verbatim and cross-referenced to the signage supplied. Also confirm your pleaded legal basis (contractual sum by performance vs breach/trespass).
c) The landowner authority in force on the material date, unredacted as to parties, land description/boundaries, dates, consideration, and with express authority (if any) for ParkingEye to issue PCNs, to litigate in your own name, and to recover the sums now claimed.

You continue to demand £130 comprised of a £100 “Parking Charge” and a £30 “LBCC administration fee”. Identify the legal basis on which you contend a separate £30 pre-issue administration sum is recoverable in addition to the approved parking charge, and confirm whether VAT is (a) chargeable or (b) excluded, and why. If you cannot identify a proper basis, confirm the claim is limited to the principal, the court issue fee and the fixed, permitted legal representative’s costs on issue.

If you issue proceedings without first providing the items at 2(a)–(c) and a coherent explanation of 3), I will draw this correspondence to the court’s attention and seek appropriate sanctions for unreasonable conduct, including costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g). No further extensions will be agreed. I will not use a web portal.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Postal address]
[Email]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: ParkingEye PCN - Challaborough Bay P&D - No purchase of appropriate time
« Reply #29 on: »
Brilliant as always, thank you.