Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello Everyone

Today a Private Parking Charge Notice was received from ParkingEye for overstaying at the Aldi/B&M Car Park in New Southgate. This was only the second time the driver had been at this location and was used to parking at shopping centre car parks in the past without any problem and where most allow two hours parking or paying on exit.

The driver shopped at both B&M and Aldi both of which were busy and left straight after. (receipts available from both) Today the registered keeper received a PCN from ParkingEye alleging that the allowed time of 1 hr 30 minutes was exceeded by 22 minutes.

Do I, as the registered keeper have any grounds for appealing this ticket, or would it be better to ask Aldi and or B&M to see if they can intervene?

Many thanks for any advice.

https://imgur.com/a/KF88Rf3[/img]]

For some reason the inserted url from imagur for the image of the PCN does not show up on posting. It worked on my last topic!

What am I doing wrong please?

I don't know but I will reproduce them here for you:

Do I, as the registered keeper have any grounds for appealing this ticket.

Yes. I have had exactly the same issue that I dealt with on behalf of a friend for a PE NtK that failed to define the relevant land.

The location stated in the NtK is not a valid address. "Aldi Southgate" on the front and "Aldi New Southgate" on the back of the NtK mean nothing. Enter either of those "locations" into Google maps and no Aldi Southgate or New Southgate comes up. The town or city is not mentioned and there is no post code to even reference it to.

On that basis alone, the NtK is not PoFA compliant and therefore, only the driver is liable. Because they have no idea who the driver is, unless you tell them, inadvertently or otherwise, they cannot hold you liable as the keeper. Under no circumstances must you reveal the identity of the driver. You are appealing solely as the keeper.

In the case I mentioned, PE lost at POPLA (case 6063403839) because they could not rebut the fact that the location as described in the NtK was not relevant land due to the ambiguity of the location and therefore the NtK was not PoFA complaint and as the driver was not identified, the keeper could not be liable and so the PCN had been issued incorrectly.

My advice is for you to appeal to PE with the following:

I am appealing as the keeper, Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are attempting to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). However, your Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not compliant with the requirements of PoFA.

I drew your attention to the relevant paragraph from PoFA 9(2)(a):

9(1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2) The notice must-
(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.

Your NtK states the location as "Aldi Southgate" on the front and "Aldi New Southgate" on the back. A search on Google maps for "Aldi New Southgate" brings up a list of 5 different Aldi stores with the following post codes: N11 1QJ, SE25 5AJ, EN4 8SL, L14 2DE and EN1 1TH. None of those locations identify the relevant land. Therefore, as the relevant land is not identified, PoFA cannot be used to hold me liable as the keeper.

I would also like to point out to you another recent POPLA decision that went against ParkingEye for exactly the same reasons as outlined above. Please refer to POPLA case  6063403839 from January 2024.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Whatever you do, do not submit the above appeal before the 6th June as they could, in theory, re-issue the NtK with a location that does comply with PoFA in that there is at least a post code or town mentioned.

I do, however, see that Aldi New Southgate is stated on both the front and the back, albeit both without a town or postcode. Have I missed a third instance of the location stated as Aldi Southgate on the front?

Seems to be listed as Aldi New Southgate on both sides unless I've missed the same thing as you - but the overall argument still holds, you'll just need to tweak b789's suggested wording slightly.

I can see the Date Issued as 30/05/2024, but what is the date given? Is this the date the keeper is presumed to have received the NtK, the Private version of a Civil PCN being served?

A notice sent by first class post is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date it is posted (aka 'issued'), paragraph 9(6) of PoFA refers..

Does the clear omission of a town or postcode on either side of the NtK still invalidate the NtK, per-se in terms of it not being PoFA compliant?

It doesn't invalidate the notice, per se. Whether or not they complied with PoFA does not affect whether or not the driver owes the money being demanded. However, if they do not meet the requirements of PoFA, they cannot recover any unpaid charges from the keeper (where they don't know who was driving). ParkingEye almost certainly won't agree with your appeal. POPLA should, but can be a mixed bag with location based arguments.

I will, as per your advice, not lodge the appeal until 6th June. Please would you explain for my own benefit, the significance of that date?

As b789 noted, this is so that they cannot re-issue the notice with a more thorough address, as it will be too late for them to do so.

Hello again. I've just been online to ParkingEye to lodge my appeal and see that the full postal address of Aldi, New Southgate, together with the city and postcode is stated on the appeal page for details of the Parking Charge Notice.

Does this change anything at all or is it the fact that the city and postcode is NOT stated on the PCN itself that leaves PE open to challenge?

the other question I had in my original post was whether it was worth asking Aldi itself if they can get PE to cancel the charge. this was never answered. I know it's a long shot, but after all if the store was not so busy, the driver wouldn't have overstayed the 1hr 30min time limit.

And one other thing, where it says "Appeals should be submitted within 28 days of the delivery of the Parking Charge and whilst under assessment, the value of the charge will not increase." does this mean the discounted value of £40 will not increase or the original £70?

Thank you for your help.

Hi @b789

I'm about to send my online appeal to PE. Please could you give it a quick check-over to make sure I have not made any mistakes as I have amended your draft to reflect the fact that it states the location only as  "Aldi New Southgate"  and not as originally thought, as Southgate on one side and New Southgate on the other.

Is it worth mentioning that the driver explained that the stores were busy and 1hr 30mins is insufficient and unfair?

Thank you for your help.

"I am appealing as the keeper, Parking Charge Notice (Ref:477653/424465 for vehicle registration mark LP16 JDK, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are attempting to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). However, your Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not compliant with the requirements of PoFA.

I draw your attention to the relevant paragraph from PoFA 9(2)(a):

9(1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2) The notice must-
(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.

Your NtK states the location only as  "Aldi New Southgate". A search on Google maps for "Aldi New Southgate" brings up a list of 5 different Aldi stores with the following post codes: N11 1QJ, SE25 5AJ, EN4 8SL, L14 2DE and EN1 1TH. None of those locations identify the relevant land. Therefore, as the relevant land is not identified, PoFA cannot be used to hold me liable as the keeper.

I would also like to point out to you another recent POPLA decision that went against ParkingEye for exactly the same reasons as outlined above. Please refer to POPLA case  6063403839 from January 2024.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code."

If all is OK I will submit the appeal tomorrow.

Thank you.

As an aside, have you spoken to Aldi and/or B&M?

Not yet but I tried a mobile number from Google Maps for Aldi that wouldn't pick up. (odd, listing a mobile.)I haven't tried B & M yet.

Do I still have time for this?

Thanks.

Hello b789

The appeal I quoted above with my own details is the initial appeal to Parking Eye, as you originally sent and suggested I use. That is what I am about to submit to PE.

When you say:

That is not enough. This link will take you to a redacted copy of the appeal submitted which you can adapt as necessary to your own circumstances.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uoy7cfztstwaxx0hlobf6/POPLAappeal-6063403839-copy.pdf?rlkey=hpvpw3kyewrfvpmmubz5u4gwk&dl=0

I'm assuming that my initial appeal is not enough for a POFA appeal if and when the appeal to PE is rejected, but is OK as the first appeal to PE which you said not to submit before 6th June.

Have I understood that correctly, please?

Hi again. I have a bit of a dilemma. I have been checking my email and the Parking Eye website to see if they responded to my appeal. And have seen nothing. Instead I received a reminder that the parking charge was still outstanding (at the discounted rate).

In the meantime I did approach the manager at Aldi and gave him copies of both the original PCN and the reminder and was told that they would get it cancelled and if I received anything further I should take it to them.

Over the past two weeks I was dealing with my brother's death and funeral and there is a possibility that I did not submit the appeal although I'm sure that I did.

I have re-submitted it today saying that I have had no response to my appeal, but instead received a reminder. I didn't think These guys ever sent out reminders especially while the discount was still available. I'm posting that reminder. here FYI.

Where do I stand if it turns out that I had not, in fact submitted the original appeal.

Hopefully the Aldi manager will intervene and get it cancelled anyway. Any advice on my dilemma gratefully received.

Thanks all.

PS I don't know why my imgur images are not displaying.