Author Topic: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land  (Read 254 times)

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PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
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On the 20th of March, my vehicle was used to pick up my daughter from a friend place. They live in a residential whose entrance looks like this.

 
The driver stopped the car here while waiting for the toddler to come. The driver stayed in the car or around the car the entire time and the car was always running (it's an hybrid so the engine will turn off...). The pick-up process likely still took 10+ minutes (children...). 


I received a PNC addressed to me (registered driver), stating they issued a Parking Charge because the car was parked on private land, claiming the reason for the issue being "No Parking on the roadway". 


Now the vehicle was on the roadway but it is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that the vehicle being stationary on the roadway does not constitute parking? 
  

 

A few other things that stand  out that I'm not sure if are relevant: 

- The PNC includes 2 pictures (the car lights can be see on, in both pictures) with a timestamp. Based on data from google maps, that timestamp is wrong, google maps from one of the passengers show the vehicle left the location at 18:05, when the timestamp on the picture shows the car there at 18:17 

- The Resident had actually requested a visitors permit for my vehicle, but the vehicle did not go to the visitors parking bay as the driver was in a hurry and didn't want to go into the residence. 
 

   
The PCN was issued on the 30th, I am not sure when it arrived (the 2nd notice took 6 days) as I was away for 2 weeks and only saw the letter earlier this week. 

See here the PCN:




and here is the parking notice that can be found all around:


Any help on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance

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Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #1 on: »
Stopping on a road, whether or not the engine is running and whether or not someone is sitting in the vehicle, may well be “parking”. Why wouldn’t it be?

Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #2 on: »
Well where I am originally from it is different. I've seen signs saying no parking and other saying no stopping, thus I assumed they had different definitions. I stand corrected I guess. Does that mean I should pay the fine?

Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #3 on: »
Should you pay, up to you, from what you've described the driver  breached theterms and conditions of the car par, so is liable for the charge. There may grounds for appeal, the time discrepancy for one if you have good evidence. Challenging parkingvs stopping is u likely to win an appeal, especially withan IPC affiliated company and IAS. So unless you paying next steps will either work through the appeals process (recommended) and endure the debt collectors letters. Eventually you will get a letterofclai that can't be ignored. If you engage with the legal process they will ost likely give up before they have to pay the court fee.

Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #4 on: »
I used the MSE tool to write me an appeal. Does it make sense, anything that I should add or remove? Thanks!


Quote
I dispute your parking charge as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.



The PCN alleges "No Parking on the Roadway". The vehicle was stationary for approximately 10 minutes to collect a passenger. The driver remained with the vehicle throughout, which was attended and ready to move at all times.



This was stopping/waiting to collect a passenger, not parking. No contract was formed as the driver did not accept any terms by using a car park facility.



The sign stated "you must park wholly within a marked parking bay. No parking on roadways / yellow lines / paved / hatched or landscaped areas". This prohibition applies to parking, not to brief stopping/waiting to collect a passenger.



The charge is unenforceable.





Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #5 on: »
Just following up on this as I have to reply by tomorrow. The MSE tool tells me that keeper liability applies because the company is a BPA member and this is POFA land, insisting on the "Stopping vs parking" argument, which does seem to be against the advice here.

I looked up similar threads and found this one:

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/uk-car-park-management-fined-while-waiting-to-pick-up-a-passenger/

Is the notice I received compliant with 100% fully compliant with PoFA 2012 or is that still the best argument?

Would it be beneficial to mention that stopping to pick up a passenger as I feel that's what I would argue against the unfairness of this charge if I am in front of a judge.

Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #6 on: »
The PCN has no “period of parking”, as required by
An Act to provide for the destruction, retention, use and other regulation of certain evidential material; to impose consent and other requirements in relation to certain processing of biometric in...
legislation.gov.uk

Quote
9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
As I’ve already said, I don’t personally agree with the argument that sitting in a stationary car for ten minutes isn’t parking, but if you think otherwise, go for it.
Fairness doesn’t come into it, you have to argue technical points including points of law. If we could defend unfair charges, life would be easier, perhaps.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2026, 02:29:04 pm by jfollows »
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Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #7 on: »
Thanks for the advice jfollows, As you said, fairness is pointless thus going with what is the strongest legal defense is what I want to do.



Can you advise on what language I should use on the appeal? Can I use the same as from this other thread:



Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.


 
As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UKCPM has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

 

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UKCPM have no hope at IAS or court, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.



Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #8 on: »
Your appeal will be rejected, you will need to construct a longer appeal to the IAS explaining precisely why PoFA 2012 has not been complied with, which will probably be rejected but will form the basis of your defence to a subsequent court claim.

Re: PCN - CPM - Vehicle Parked in Private Land
« Reply #9 on: »
As expected my appeal was rejected with the boiler plate template:<br>
<br>


Quote
(...)
The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made on the following basis.<br>

 <br>

Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, as per our photographic evidence, the vehicle was parked in contravention of the advertised terms and conditions. As the vehicle was parked in an area where no parking is allowed, we can confirm that this PCN has been issued correctly.<br>
<br>
(...)
<br>


I was drafting an appeal based on the flaws on the PoFA as you suggested but I saw that on other examples you don't include these, should I wait until IAS state they do comply with PoFA to present the flaws, or should I include that on my appeal from the get go?<br>

<br>

Here is the draft / template that I was thinking of using from another thread:

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.<br>
<br>
The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:<br>
<br>
1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.<br>
<br>
2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.<br>
<br>
In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:<br>
<br>
• the identity of the landowner,<br>
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,<br>
• applicable byelaws,<br>
• the duration and scope of authority granted,<br>
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,<br>
• the means of issuing PCNs,<br>
• responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,<br>
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.
<br>
<br>
These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.<br>
<br>
3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.<br>
<br>
4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.<br>
<br>
5. Strict proof that the NtK was posted in time for it to have been given within the relevant period. The PPSCoP sect<br>ion 8.1.2(d) Note 2 requires that the operator must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)<br>
<br>
6. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors or barristers.” Yet there is no way to verify this. Decisions are unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no transparency, no register of assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their appeal. If the person reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.
<br>
<br>
If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.<br>
<br>
In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.
<br>
<br>
Here are the issues I found with the PNC:<br>
<br>
(a) Paragraph 9(2)(a) — the NtK fails to specify the period of parking to which the notice relates. It states only an "Incident Time/Date: 18:17 20/03/2026" with the body's reference to "the period immediately preceding the incident time stated above" <br>
(b) Paragraph 9(2)(e) — the NtK fails to state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver. The notice merely invites the keeper to identify the driver. An implicit invitation does not satisfy the explicit statutory requirement for such a statement to be made.<br>
(c) Paragraph 9(2)(f) — the NtK's warning to the keeper materially misstates PoFA. It states that after 28 days, the operator "will have the right to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the driver of the vehicle." PoFA paragraph 9(2)(f) requires the warning to state that recovery will be from the keeper, subject to the statutory conditions including that the creditor does not know the driver. The notice's warning is incorrect on both counts and cannot found keeper liability.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the help!