3. MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
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MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
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Driver parked at Krispy Kreme Donuts in New Malden at around 11.55pm. Driver went to go to the store but it was closed.  The signage says for customer use only and parking time limited to 90 mins.  Driver exited 40 minutes later - problems starting the car. The car is no longer in existence as it had to be scrapped.  MET are saying that there was a contravention as the driver was not a 'customer' as the store was closed.
This surely depends on the meaning of the term 'customer' which is not stated on the signage.  Driver intended to make a purchase from the store, found it closed, exited the car park 40 mins later after evenutally managing to start the car so was both a 'customer' and within the 90 minute limit.
POPLA appeal was refused.
Debt collector's letter received, but if the debt is disputed how can they pass to a debt collector?
Driver would be happy to fight this in court as this argumeant hinges on the definition of 'customer'.  Any advice on how to respond to the debt collector?
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #1 on: »
Read this and then show us the Notice to Keeper (NtK) making sure that all dates and times remain visible. Also show us exactly what you put in our appeals.

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

We do not need to see any useless debt collector letters. You can safely ignore those
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #2 on: »
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #3 on: »
It is impossible to read that NtK. Please post a better image of it.

You haven't shown us the operators response/evidence pack but you have shown us your response to it. Where is the operators evidence pack?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 10:11:32 am by b789 »
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: b789 on January 20, 2025, 10:06:05 am
Please post a better image of it.
It may be easier to get a better resolution image using a third party site like Imgur - there's a guide to this in the 'Read this First' thread b789 linked to above.
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #5 on: »
Here are some observations on the POPLA appeal:

Good Points:

1. Signage Focus: The appeal highlights that the signage does not explicitly state that the car park is limited to times when the store is open. This remains the core strength of the argument since it challenges the enforceability of any implied term not stated clearly on the sign.

2. Time Limit Observance: The driver stayed under 40 minutes, well within the 90-minute maximum. This directly disputes the claim of a contravention.

3. Definition of 'Customer': The driver entered the car park intending to purchase donuts, which reasonably qualifies them as a customer. The signage does not define "customer" or impose conditions based on store operating hours.

4. Terms and Conditions Clarity: The appeal correctly points out that the signage fails to specify restrictions related to time or store operations and does not provide a complete or discernible list of terms.

Irrelevant or Weak Points:

1. Mechanical Problems: While this explains the duration of the stay, it is unnecessary since the driver was within the 90-minute limit. It might be interpreted as an attempt to justify a delay, which is not relevant to the primary arguments.

2. Over-Reliance on Intention: While the intent to make a purchase strengthens the "customer" argument, it could be undermined if MET argues that parking use was invalid when no transaction occurred. Focusing on the signage’s lack of definition for "customer" is a more robust approach.

Additional Observations:

• The phrase "Terms and conditions apply at all times" could potentially imply parking rules remain in effect regardless of store hours. However, this phrase does not explicitly limit use to specific times or activities, leaving room for interpretation.

• If the rest of the sign is not clearly discernible, this could further support the argument that any alleged restrictions were not adequately communicated.

The appeal remains solid overall, with the strongest focus being the signage's lack of specificity and the driver’s compliance with the visible terms. Nothing much you can do now but wait for the decision. If your appeal is not upheld, it is not binding on you and you should fight this all the way to a court claim.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #6 on: »
Thank you so much, that is very helpful.  I will definitely fight this all the way to court.
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #7 on: »
https://imgur.com/a/pe6BQ4j

Images may be better now with this link
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Jengie on January 20, 2025, 06:18:57 pm
https://imgur.com/a/pe6BQ4j

Images may be better now with this link

Nope. You need to take a higher resolution photo of it.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #9 on: »




My apologies, are these pictures better?
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #10 on: »
Much better.

So, the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is PoFA compliant which means that if the driver is not identified, the liability for the charge can transfer to the Keeper. However, that is not an issue here as the argument is going to be over whether a contractual term was breached by the driver.

As the appeals process has been exhausted, you are going to have to wait for MET to issue a claim in the county court. Until then, there is not much you can do. You can safely ignore all debt collection letters. They are powerless to do anything as the debt collectors are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver.

Never, ever, ever communicate with a powerless debt collector. If you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC). then please come back and show us. It is not crucial to respond to an LoC but showtimes it is worthwhile, even if only to make the bar stewards work for it.

When the N1SDT Claim Form arrives from the CNCB, that must be responded to. Show it to us when you receive it, redacting only your personal data, the claim number, your VRM and the MCOL password. Leave everything else visible, especially the Particulars of Claim (PoC) and all dates.

The only other thing to note is that they are most likely to use DCB Legal as their bulk litigator which means that you are unlikely going to be able to use the arguments discussed above as it is 99.9% likely that they will discontinue before it ever gets to a hearing.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #11 on: »
Thank you so much, that is so helpful.
I will let you know when I receive a letter of claim.
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #12 on: »
Hello, I have now received a letter of claim for this.
Should I reply setting out the basis on which I am disputing the claim?
Any advice?
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #13 on: »
Please show it to us
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Re: MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer
« Reply #14 on: »
https://imgur.com/a/RjwmG7G

Here is the link. Can you see this?

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  3. MET parking fine Krispy Kreme Donuts New Malden - parked within time limit but they say driver was not a customer