Author Topic: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security  (Read 1428 times)

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Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #15 on: »
I think you at least need to rebut the “In this case there is no requirement to issue a Notice To Keeper.” rubbish.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4 says:
Quote
5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—

(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or

(b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.

(2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 10:35:48 am by jfollows »

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #16 on: »
And I presume we're relying upon this 'expiry period', highlighted in red - paragraph 5 - having been surpassed:

Quote
8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;

(c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), (c) and (f);

(d)if the unpaid parking charges specified in that notice to driver as required by paragraph 7(2)(c) have been paid in part, specify the amount that remains unpaid, as at a time which is—

(i)specified in the notice to keeper, and

(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;

(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single period of parking).

(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

(7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10.

(8)In sub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—

(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and

(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #17 on: »
Plus they never applied to the DVLA:
Quote
11(1)The third condition is that—

(a)the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor) has made an application for the keeper's details in relation to the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate;

(b)the application was made during the relevant period for the purposes of paragraph 8(4) (where a notice to driver has been given) or 9(4) (where no notice to driver has been given);

(c)the information sought by the application is provided by the Secretary of State to the applicant.

(2)The third condition only applies if the vehicle is a registered vehicle.

(3)In this paragraph “application for the keeper's details” means an application for the following information to be provided to the applicant by virtue of regulations made under section 22(1)(c) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994—

(a)the name of the registered keeper of the vehicle during the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate; and

(b)the address of that person as it appears on the register (or, if that person has ceased to be the registered keeper, as it last appeared on the register).

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #18 on: »
There was no need to apply to the DVLA as the Keeper appealed, solely in their capacity as the Keeper.

Quote
Response to operators Prima Facie  case:

If the assessor genuinely holds legal qualifications at solicitor or barrister level — a claim for which the IAS offers no transparency or public verification — they would know that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) requires a valid Notice to Keeper (NtK) where the parking operator seeks to pursue the registered keeper, in cases where the driver is not identified. This obligation applies specifically when a Notice to Driver (NtD) has been issued and the keeper has not admitted to being the driver. In this case, the NtD was affixed to the vehicle, and I appealed solely in my capacity as keeper without making any admission of driver identity. Therefore, absent a compliant NtK, the operator’s reliance on PoFA is not only procedurally defective — it is legally embarrassing.

The suggestion that my appeal, made solely in the capacity of registered keeper, somehow enables Armtrac to bypass the requirements of PoFA and retrospectively assign driver liability is not just legally untenable — it is desperate. Lipstick on a pig remains a pig, and the misapplication of statute does not cure a fatally defective claim.

Therefore if the IAS assessor is indeed legally qualified — as claimed but never substantiated — they will be fully aware that in cases where an NtD has been issued and the keeper has not admitted to being the driver, PoFA requires the issuance of a valid NtK to engage keeper liability. This is not discretionary. The absence of a Notice to Keeper in this case is fatal to any attempt to rely on PoFA.

Should the assessor choose to ignore this foundational requirement — which sits at the heart of Schedule 4 — it will speak volumes about the reliability and independence of this adjudication process. The consistent refusal to attribute decisions to named individuals only compounds the perception that transparency and legal rigour are lacking. If the decision rendered here genuinely reflects qualified legal reasoning, its author should be willing to put their name to it. If not, one must question why.

In summary, the absence of a valid NtK, combined with the lack of any driver identification, renders keeper liability entirely inapplicable under PoFA The operator cannot lawfully pursue the registered keeper, and any attempt to do so is procedurally defective and unenforceable.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #19 on: »
Thanks - response submitted.  Given the clear failure to comply with PoFA as you set out - and which I with no prior knowledge of the law was able to verify independently in a matter of minutes - it would be indeed be farcical if IAS doesn't adjucate in favour of the appelant. 

On a side note - the IAS form which needs to be filled in to respond has had the ability to copy or paste text disabled, which I struggle to see any valid reason for.

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #20 on: »
On a side note - the IAS form which needs to be filled in to respond has had the ability to copy or paste text disabled, which I struggle to see any valid reason for.

Because they are firm of scamming bar stewards. The IAS is a company with the same directors as the IPC. Judge, jury and executioner, all rolled into one.

They have deliberately made it as difficult as possible for anyone to try and appeal in any meaningful way. There is something I wouldn't do, even if they were on fire...

Zero respect for them and hopefully once the Private Parking legislation is active, it will see their demise.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #21 on: »
Too late for your case but one can generally find some sort of browser extension for whatever browser you're using that bypasses right click restrictions etc.

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #22 on: »
On a side note - the IAS form which needs to be filled in to respond has had the ability to copy or paste text disabled, which I struggle to see any valid reason for.

Because they are firm of scamming bar stewards. The IAS is a company with the same directors as the IPC. Judge, jury and executioner, all rolled into one.

They have deliberately made it as difficult as possible for anyone to try and appeal in any meaningful way. There is something I wouldn't do, even if they were on fire...

Zero respect for them and hopefully once the Private Parking legislation is active, it will see their demise.

I figured as much and share the sentiment!

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #23 on: »
Response just in from the 'Independent Appeals Service':

Quote
Appeal Outcome: Dismissed

The Adjudicators comments are as follows:
"It is important that the Appellant understands that the adjudicator is not in a position to give his legal advice. The adjudicator's role is to look at whether the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each particular case. The adjudicator's decision is not legally binding on the Appellant (it is intended to be a guide) and they are free to obtain independent legal advice if they so wish. However, the adjudicator is legally qualified (a barrister or solicitor) and decides the appeal according to their understanding of the law and legal principles.

The terms of this appeal are that I am only allowed to consider the charge being appealed and not the circumstances of other drivers or other parking events. The guidance to this appeal also makes it clear that I am bound by the law of contract and can only consider legal challenges not mistakes or extenuating circumstances. I am satisfied that the Operator's signage, which was on display throughout the site, makes it sufficiently clear that the terms and conditions are in force at all times and that a PCN will be issued to drivers who fail to comply with the terms and conditions, regardless of a driver's reasons for being on site or any mitigating factors. While noting their comments, it is clear from the evidence provided to this appeal that the Appellant did indeed enter and use the site otherwise than in accordance with the displayed terms by allowing their vehicle to remain parked beyond the expiry of the ticket displayed in their vehicle, having been allowed an adequate grace period prior to the charge being issued. It is the driver's (rather than a third party's) responsibility to ensure that the terms and conditions of parking are properly complied with. I have considered the correspondence sent to the Appellant I am satisfied that the Parking Charge Notice was correctly served and that the correspondence complies with current guidelines. I am satisfied on the evidence provided that the Operator has the authority to issue and enforce PCNs at this site. I am further satisfied as to the location of the contravention, that the correct vehicle has been identified parked at the time suggested in the images provided and that the correct Appellant is pursued.

I am satisfied that the Operator has proven their prima facie case. Whilst having some sympathy with the Appellant's circumstances, once liability has been established, only the Operator has the discretion to vary or cancel the parking charge based on mitigating circumstances. Accordingly this appeal is dismissed.
"

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.

As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

You should contact the operator within 28 days to make payment of the charge.

Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service


I won't be rushing to contact the operator to make payment.  It seems that the IAS adjudicator is only concerned with whether the ticket was validly issued, rather than whether there is a liability upon the keeper to pay. 

I presume the operator will be in touch in due course to request payment and threaten a court claim.  Is this operator likely to proceed with the issue of a claim?

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #24 on: »
Typical blather from an anonymous pretend lawyer. Thankfully, the IAS decision is not binding on you and you should not pay it. The IAS are simply an incestuous arm of the IPC and their only objective is to protect IPC members.

The operator will now come back to you with more male bovine excrement about you being liable to pay them. Don't.

They will next engage useless debt recovery letters. You can safely ignore all debt collector demands as they are powerless to actually do anything except to try and scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

Come back when you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) and we will take it from there.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
« Reply #25 on: »
Thanks, let them bring it on - will be in touch in due course!