Author Topic: Invitation to pay Parking Charge  (Read 1661 times)

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Invitation to pay Parking Charge
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This may have happened before, but as the registered keeper, I have received a letter from Park With Ease regarding an unpaid parking fee. From asking the driver at the time of this parking issue, they stated that they paid for parking at a car park in Snowdonia and displayed the ticket. I believe them given they took a picture of the car and you can see a white ticket on the dashboard. they only took an image to make sure no other cars damaged the vehicle as parking was tight.

On further investigation i checked google street maps and there are two car parks, that look a continuation of the first one, but it looks like it belongs to the YHA and one is a national park car park. Looks a very easy mistake to make if this is what happened. They may have paid but possibly for the wrong car park.

To my knowledge most rural YHA's do not charge for parking but ask for the registration number of guest staying. This Parking charge came from an ANPR camera, so i am not sure what to do in this instance with the letter.

Any help appreciated.

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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #1 on: »
Which PPC? Show us a redacted picture of the NtK leaving all dates visible, both sides.

You say the location is in a National Park. What is the location stated on the NtK? Some National Parks are covered by bylaws and so the car park may be under statutory control and therefore not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA which means that there is a possibility that liability cannot be transferred from the driver to the keeper who is the individual who is in receipt of the anti.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #2 on: »
The PPC is Park With Ease Ltd. I can't upload a picture of NtK currently. The Location was YHA Idwal Cottage in Snowdonia/Eryri NP. The YHA have two car parks right next to the one which is not theirs (Maes Parcio Dyffryn Ogwen).

Hope this helps

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #3 on: »
We'd really need to see the NtK and, if possible, some photos of the signage at the entrance and a general view of the car park. GSV only has photos from 2021 and the Park With Ease website does not even mention this car park. Only mentions one in Lancashire and 3 others in the Lake District.

This is a small operator and may not be litigious. As they are IPC members, appealing may not be worthwhile anyway. Have you tried Plan A yet and asked the YHA to cancel the ticket?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #4 on: »
From research, a National Park in England or Wales is under statutory control (National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949). In which case, the car park on National Park land cannot be relevant land for the purposes of PoFA 3(1)© which means that, as long as the drivers identity is not revealed, they have no way of holding the keeper liable.

I'm open to being corrected on this and not having seen the NtK, cannot be 100% confident. However, until we know otherwise, the keeper must not reveal the identity of who was driving.

Was the PCN a Penalty Notice or a Parking Charge Notice?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you for your responses, they are very much appreciated. I Spoke with the YHA at this location tonight and explained the situation. I asked if there had been a change to the way they operate the car park.The guy on the end of the phone said, they now allow members of the public to park in their car park, not just YHA guests. He said even the guest have to pay to stay on the car park. I asked how long this has been in operation, and he said for around two years. I asked the location of their pay machine and he said that it was in front of their premises (not on the car park) next to the gate if you looked on GSM. I then asked if somebody did not know the area, was it possible to pay at the wrong machine and was there adequate signage to state which machine. He said there was plenty of signs. I reiterated my question about signage to the correct pay machine, seeing as there was two close together that could easily be mistaken as to which was which. He became shirty and said you will have to ask the company managing the site and then said he was not divulging any further.

I have asked "Park With Ease" for site images and information regarding the pay machine and signage to perhaps help identify the driver. I do not really want to drive around 120 miles to check it out for myself. I have now attached the NtK, and also an grab from GSM to show how close they are together (car parks) obviously it's an old image, so it shows cones blocking the entrance.

Regards 

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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #6 on: »
We need to see the front and back of the NtK. However, as the NtK has not been issued/served within the required timescale as mandated by PoFA, the keeper cannot be liable for the charge. Only the driver but you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver.

Initially, appeal using the following wording:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

Should you choose to decline this appeal, please skip the IAS kangaroo court and any useless debt collector threats and tell your legal advisors to issue a county court claim where a judge will determine that you are unable to pursue me as the keeper of the vehicle.

As there is no obligation for me to name the driver, I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled.

Yours faithfully,
« Last Edit: May 06, 2024, 11:30:49 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #7 on: »
Should you choose to decline this appeal, please skip the IAS kangaroo court
For a spell before it toppled over - we had seen a few cases on PePiPoo where the IAS were upholding appeals raised on 'slam dunk' points like a late notice (late attempt to clean up their image with the prospect of upcoming government intervention, perhaps). With that in mind, it might actually be worth a crack with the IAS - costs nothing, and shouldn't take too much effort, and if successful, provides closure without waiting in "will they sue me?" limbo.

HonestJohn, that's of course your choice to make, but if it were me in receipt of the charge, I'd be minded to give the IAS a rare go in this case...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2024, 11:51:44 pm by DWMB2 »
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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #8 on: »
OP, first things first.

Post the back of the PCN pl.
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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #9 on: »
Whatever the back of the NtK says, Park With Ease cannot hold the keeper liable as the NtK fails PoFA 9(5).

As long as they don't know the identity of the driver, Park With Ease can never win this one. The keeper should not identify who was driving or else flush away the "golden ticket" opportunity.

So, OP, have you identified who was driving to Park With Ease? No "...I parked", only "...the driver". Not that you should be communicating with them anyway.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #10 on: »
Please see attached back of letter.

I have only contacted them as the keeper for more information, nothing else has been disclosed.

I notice the date is out of the 14 days, but does this still stand if they are part of the International Parking Community, as their website does not state 14 days, unless i have missed something? I am not familiar with parking charge notices tbf.

Regards


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Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #11 on: »
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act is the law, and the law is the same regardless of which trade body they are a member of.

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #12 on: »
In which case, just send the appeal as suggested earlier, with or without the reference to the IAS kangaroo court.

You and we need to see how they decide respond to it considering they don't know who was driving and they can't hold you, the keeper liable unless you want to pay it and admit to being the driver.

If they reject, then we need to see on what grounds. As to a secondary appeal to the IAS, that is up to you. Whilst others on here may believe that there is a remote chance that they'll actually side with the appellant, personally, I believe that with a roughly 4% chance of winning, it's not worth the effort.

Weathering the inevitable storm of debt collection threats is easy as long as you understand that they are just that, threats designed to get the victim to pay up. However, as long as you understand that these debt collectors offer their services on a no-win, no-fee basis and are powerless to actually do anything as they are a third party to the contract the driver is alleged to have breached.

I doubt that this tiddler company would try and litigate. I have not seen anything from them. They are unlikely to try and take this all the way to a hearing as they know they cannot hold the keeper liable.

They either cancel the charge or else try and scare you into paying. If you change address in the next 6 years, just make sure you instruct their DPO to rectify your address for service and to erase your old address.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #13 on: »
Thank you everybody for your assistance on this matter and especially b789.

I have droughted this appeal, would you say this is suffice, taking into consideration the comments on this thread?

Dear [Parking Company],

I am writing in response to your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: [Insert Reference]) concerning vehicle registration mark [Vehicle Registration].

Upon reviewing your correspondence, it has come to my attention that you have not sought to hold me liable as the registered keeper, pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). Furthermore, you have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is evident that the prescribed time frame for such issuance has lapsed.

In light of these circumstances, should you opt to decline this appeal, I urge you to direct your legal representatives to pursue any further action through the appropriate channels, including the initiation of a county court claim where a judge will adjudicate on the matter.

I wish to emphasize that there exists no legal obligation on my part to disclose the identity of the driver in question. Consequently, I regret to inform you that I am unable to provide any further assistance in this regard.

I anticipate your prompt confirmation that the charge in question has been duly cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Re: Invitation to pay Parking Charge
« Reply #14 on: »
That will do… except, either leave out this bit:

In light of these circumstances, should you opt to decline this appeal, I urge you to direct your legal representatives to pursue any further action through the appropriate channels, including the initiation of a county court claim where a judge will adjudicate on the matter.

Or leave it as I worded it in my earlier response.

Your bit does not specifically tell them to leave out all the useless DRA action.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain