Author Topic: Euro Parking County court letter  (Read 4768 times)

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Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #15 on: »
Hi All,

Please see my defence attached and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

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« Last Edit: November 09, 2023, 10:41:22 pm by BigPoppa »

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #16 on: »
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585 If you haven't been to court before I'd advise reading it thoroughly.
Did you read the post I linked to, and have you read any other examples of defences? I don't mean for this to sound overly critical, but it would seem that you haven't - what you have posted does not read like a defence, but more like a mixture of POPLA appeal and witness statement (indeed, you refer to it as an 'appeal' in the document itself).

If you look at the example defence on MSE, and other examples there and on PePiPoo, you'll see that the purpose of a defence is to refute each of the elements of their claim as set out in the particulars of claim. It does not get into evidence (so no photos, or links etc.) - evidence is presented separately alongside witness statements. It also shouldn't be written in the first person, so no "I", refer to yourself as "the defendant".


Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #17 on: »
Sorry @DWMB2 but this can be very confusing for newbies like me!!

In any case, I have re-read it all again and have drafted the defence attached. Any support would be very welcome.

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Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #18 on: »
In your defence you say:
Quote
The Defendant denies driving the car on 20/12/22.

But in your opening post you say:
I was unaware that I could not park there as I could not see any signs at night.

Lying in court is a serious criminal offence - don't deny driving if you were. You don't need to tell them who was driving (unless directly asked in the hearing), but it's important you don't deny something that is true.

You will be able to expand on the forbidding signage argument in the witness statement, but I wonder if it would be worth making mention in the defence (only a few words perhaps) - you deny that a contract was entered into, but perhaps an additional point that you deny that the signage at the site is capable of forming a contract.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #19 on: »
How about this? -

The facts as known to the Defendant:
2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.
 
3. The defendant first heard about this parking charge by post on 05/01/23 and feels harassed by the bombardment of ‘debt recovery’ letters. The Defendant cannot be held liable due to the Claimant not complying with the ‘keeper liability’ requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4.

The I have added a line at the end of point 13 -

13. The Claimant’s signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, such that they would be considered incapable of binding any person reading them under common contract law, and would also be considered void pursuant to Sch2 of the CRA.  Consequently, it is the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous penalty was seen, known or agreed. The defendant denies that the signage at the site is capable of forming a contract. 

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #20 on: »
@DWMB2

I will get this email over to the ccbcaq email address today if you don't have any more comments.

Thanks.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #21 on: »
The wording seems okay, although I do wonder about the order. I'd say the signage being incapable of forming a contract is a stronger one than the PoFA point, yet is only mentioned 13 paragraphs in. You may want to move this up.

I'm not sure the point around feeling 'harassed' is a strong one, and may distract attention from the more meritorious point that they did not comply with PoFA. The parking company could say that they had no choice but to hire a debt collection company to send you letters as you failed to engage in any correspondence with them on the matter.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #22 on: »
What about if I move point 13 up so that it's now point 4 and change point 3 to this -
 
The Defendant cannot be held liable due to the Claimant not complying with the ‘keeper liability’ requirements set out in
the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4.

I can make this a separate point number 5 -
The defendant first heard about this parking charge by post on 05/01/23 and feels harassed by the bombardment of ‘debt recovery’ letters.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #23 on: »
I can make this a separate point number 5 -
The defendant first heard about this parking charge by post on 05/01/23 and feels harassed by the bombardment of ‘debt recovery’ letters.
You seem to have taken out the important bit, and left in the unimportant bit. Your strongest argument (in my opinion), is that the signage at the site was not capable of forming a contract (the 'forbidding signage' argument). That you felt harassed by the debt collector letters is largely irrelevant when considering whether or not the charge is owed.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #24 on: »
OK. I have made the changes and emailed it to CCBC AQ. I have received the auto message saying they have receipt of me email.  I will update you with any progress. Thanks.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #25 on: »
You would be wise to try and get ahead of things. Rather than waiting to see what happens, have a look at the MSE guide I linked to and see what comes next, you can start drafting things like your witness statements now.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #26 on: »
I already did a lot of the work in the letter that I wrote by mistake....Remember you wrote - what you have posted does not read like a defence, but more like a mixture of POPLA appeal and witness statement (indeed, you refer to it as an 'appeal' in the document itself).

I will need to make some tweaks to it but it's mostly there depending if we need to go down that road or not. I'm hoping they drop it here but let's see. If we have to go the whole way them I will keep ploughing through it to the very end!!

« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 05:46:11 pm by BigPoppa »

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #27 on: »
A fair bit of the content is there, but turning into a more 'Witness Statement-friendly' format certainly won't hurt. IIRC there are some decent examples linked to in the MoneySavingExpert thread. Things such as numbering each paragraph, including a contents page, etc., anything that makes the document easier to navigate during the hearing. I notice the document you uploaded includes hyperlinks - the judge may be looking at a printout of your witness statement and evidence, so might not be able to click links (and even if they could, probably wouldn't), so where you have used links, include full copies of whatever documents they link to in full, as an exhibit in your evidence.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #28 on: »
Thanks. I will start a new draft and let you see it once ready.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #29 on: »
A fair bit of the content is there, but turning into a more 'Witness Statement-friendly' format certainly won't hurt. IIRC there are some decent examples linked to in the MoneySavingExpert thread. Things such as numbering each paragraph, including a contents page, etc., anything that makes the document easier to navigate during the hearing. I notice the document you uploaded includes hyperlinks - the judge may be looking at a printout of your witness statement and evidence, so might not be able to click links (and even if they could, probably wouldn't), so where you have used links, include full copies of whatever documents they link to in full, as an exhibit in your evidence.

After a long delay due to family issues and other various tasks in the way I have written my appeal and attached it. I have a court date now which is 02/05. I would welcome any comments before I send it to the courts.

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