Author Topic: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.  (Read 11872 times)

0 Members and 24 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #45 on: »
Good afternoon

I have received this today from 'Trace debt recovery'

This is the first communication they have made with me even though they claim that they have contacted me before.

Here is the letter:

https://ibb.co/vCWNcJwH

What's next.....do I contact them to let them know that we are waiting on POPLA or just ignore it for the time being.

Thanks

Hashim


That appears to be a fairly large procedural error on the part of Euro Car Parks as you are currently in the appeals process.

I would immediately write to ECP and ask why they have released your data to a third party debt collector when you are still in the appeals process.

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #46 on: »
@InterCity125 - note Mustek's comment immediately prior to yours - the letter from Trace Debt Recovery lists the client as "Parking Control Management UK Limited" - this letter appears to be relating to an entirely different parking charge, nothing to do with ECP.
Away from 29th March - 5th April
Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #47 on: »
Good afternoon

I have received this today from 'Trace debt recovery'

This is the first communication they have made with me even though they claim that they have contacted me before.

Here is the letter:

https://ibb.co/vCWNcJwH

What's next.....do I contact them to let them know that we are waiting on POPLA or just ignore it for the time being.

Thanks

Hashim


That appears to be a fairly large procedural error on the part of Euro Car Parks as you are currently in the appeals process.

I would immediately write to ECP and ask why they have released your data to a third party debt collector when you are still in the appeals process.
sorry this post is incorrect and was deleted by me.
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #48 on: »
Good afternoon.

I have received a response from Popla:

Decision Unsuccessful
Assessor Name Lyndsey Howgate
Assessor summary of operator case:

The parking operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) due to no payment for parking made.

Assessor summary of your case:

The appellant has provided a detailed account surrounding the parking event in question. For the purpose of my report, I have summarised the grounds raised into the points below: •The appellant advises the PCN is not PoFA 2012 compliant. •The appellant advises the car park is council owned, therefore not relevant land.

Assessor supporting rational for decision:

The registered keeper of the vehicle has raised the appeal; I will be referring to them as the appellant throughout my report. POPLA is an independent, single‑stage appeals service. Our role is to determine whether the operator issued the Parking Charge Notice correctly and whether the driver complied with the car park’s terms and conditions. The parking operator has provided a site map and time‑dated photographs showing clear and prominent signage stating private property, terms and conditions apply at all times, tariffs available, payment methods available and failure to comply with the terms and conditions of utilising the private land will result in a £100 PCN being issued. ANPR images confirm the appellant’s vehicle entered the car park on 5 December 2025 at 13:41 and exited at 14:07, a stay of 26 minutes. The parking operator’s whitelist shows no payment for parking was received on the day the PCN was issued. The appellant advises the car park is council owned, therefore not relevant land. The sector Code of Practice has been jointly created by the British Parking Association (BPA) and the International Parking Community (IPC). It is largely based on the Government’s Private Parking Code of Practice, which was published in February 2022, and subsequently withdrawn in June 2022. The new Code came into force on the 1 October 2024. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice (The Code) sets the standards its parking operators are required to comply with. I have reviewed The Code and note Section 14.1 states that where controlled land is being managed on behalf of a landowner, written confirmation must be obtained before a parking charge can be issued. In this case, a copy of the agreement between Visio-Redbridge Culture & Leisure Agreement has been provided dated 17 January 2022 confirming that the landowner has given authority for Euro Car Parks LTD to carry out parking enforcement for breaches of the advertised terms and conditions. This document does not have an expiry date, and I have received no further evidence that would suggest the above contract has been terminated and therefore is still valid. A copy of this document can be located in the case file provided by the parking operator and if the appellant wishes to obtain any additional details, they may wish to contact the landowner directly. I am satisfied that the land is private land and not council owned. The appellant advises the PCN is not PoFA 2012 compliant. I am aware the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. In this case, the PCN in question has the necessary information and the parking operator has therefore successfully transferred the liability onto the registered keeper due to the drivers details not being provided. Section 9 states the PCN must be issued within 14 days. In this case I can see that PCN was issued within the relevant period and requested driver details to be provided. The parking operator has demonstrated full compliance with the Code and has provided sufficient evidence that no payment was made for the appellant’s 26‑minute stay. As this constitutes a breach of the clearly advertised terms and conditions, I conclude that the Parking Charge Notice was correctly issued. The appeal is therefore refused.

What's next.....


Thanks

Hashim

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #49 on: »
We can come up with a complaint for POPLA.

The Assessor never engages with the missing wording from the PCN.

Also, she fails to address the Council Land issue.

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #50 on: »

I thought you cannot challenge and respond to their decision.

Hashim

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #51 on: »
We can make a complaint in the hope that they admit an error.

The operator has provided no rebuttal evidence to show that the car park is not Council owned and therefore there is a clear error by the Assessor.

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #52 on: »
I will take advice from the experts, so yes.

Also regarding the next stage, What happens now?


Hashim

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #53 on: »
ECP will engage DCBL to send threatening letters which can be ignored.
ECP will engage DCB Legal who will issue a Letter of Claim.
Come back when this happens, because it requires a response.
DCB Legal will issue a court claim, but will likely discontinue if it is defended. They do this because they claim a judgement in default from people who do not defend.

Search the forum for more details.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:52:08 pm by jfollows »

Re: Euro car park - Fullwell cross Leisure centre.
« Reply #54 on: »
POPLA Complaint.

POPLA Code -

Assessor Name - Lyndsey Howgate.


I have recently received a response from your colleague regarding a parking appeal.

In her reply Lyndsey Howgate makes two serious errors.



Complaint Point One.

In my appeal I clearly pointed out that the land at Fullwell Cross Leisure Centre was owned by Redbridge Borough Council and, as such, it is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA keeper liability.

The land is in fact council owned and being leased, long term, to Vision-Redbridge Culture and Leisure which is a wholly council owned project.

This lease does not alter the determination of relevant land since the council still own it.

I made all this clear in my initial appeal and again in my comments on the operator's evidence.

The first thing to note is that the operator did not attempt to rebut this appeal point, they don't even address it - I pointed this out in my comments.

In her response Lyndsey Howgate states the following;

"I am satisfied that the land is private land and not council owned." - This appears to be an error on the part of the Assessor.

Secondly, the operator has provided no rebuttal evidence relating to who actually OWNS then land - although the parking operators agreement is signed by Vision Redbridge (The Client), the legislation allows an 'appointed agent' to act on behalf of the landowner - in this case the appointed agent is Vision Redbridge - The fact that an appointed agent can sign such documents means that the operators agreement is incapable of providing rebuttal evidence relating to the true ownership of the land - in any circumstance, it could be the leaseholder who signs rather than the landowner.

In this instance the car park is 'provided' by Redbridge Borough Council even if they do not control it - this makes it non relevant land under PoFA Schedule 4 Paragraph 3(1)(b).



Complaint Point Two.

Failure to correctly assess compliance with PoFA Schedule 4 Paragraph 9(2)(e).

In my appeal I made it crystal clear that the NtK was not PoFA complaint.

In her response, Lyndsey Howgate states;

"the PCN in question has the necessary information" - I note immediately that the Assessor fails to engage with my evidence point - she could simply demonstrate compliance by setting out the wording which I suggest is missing - this gives the clear impression that the Assessor is looking to quickly 'skip over' an awkward point which is not rebuttable via demonstration - engaging with the evidence would only lead towards an admission of non compliance.

The assertion that the NtK has all the "necessary information" is demonstratable false - all we need to do is examine the NtK.

TO BE CLEAR - This complaint point specifically relates to non compliance with paragraph 9(2)(e) and, as such, there is no need for you to demonstrate compliance with other paragraphs - please stick firmly to the issue of compliance with 9(2)(e).

PLEASE ALSO NOTE - that compliance with 9(2)(e) is not achieved by quoting text from 9(2)(f) and loosely implying relevance.


9(2)(e) specifies the following;

THE NOTICE MUST STATE that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver AND invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;


I have capitalised certain words deliberately - notice in particular that the word AND requires that the notice set out the wording AND invite the keeper to blah blah blah OR blah blah blah.

So, in order to be compliant, we are looking for a sentence of mandatory text immediately followed by a two limbed legal invitation to the keeper with the two limbs separated by the Boolean operator "OR".

So, be my guest.

Please specifically point out, on the parking operators NtK, the sentence of mandatory wording which the notice MUST STATE, "the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver" - please DO NOT skip over this request - go ahead and point out the sentence?

Here's a clue - the wording is not present.

Following on from that, please point out the required mandatory two limbed invitation to the keeper to either pay the unpaid charges or provide alternative driver details? Don't forget the Boolean operator (OR) which must separate the two limbs!

Once again, the two limbed invitation is not present - if the two limbed invitation is present then please specifically point them out rather than skipping over my request.

As I am sure you can see, the operators NtK is NOT actually compliant is it? And Lyndsey has completely overlooked the requirements of 9(2)(e)?

This is incredibly disappointing given that my evidence led her directly to the non compliance - there really is no excuse.



I await your response with interest.


Best wishes,




xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:17:05 pm by InterCity125 »