Author Topic: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please  (Read 114 times)

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guest1290

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Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« on: February 25, 2024, 04:59:29 pm »
Hi

First of all, I should have read here first, but I am where I am.

Driver parked at Bon Marche, 3-23 Suffolk Road Lowestoft, NR32 1DZ on 20/12/23 - this is not in dispute. I personally paid £1 using the pay and display machine, entering the car reg before I did. I am 100% sure we paid. This is a car park I have not used before, there was a gentleman struggling to pay, he tried several pound coins, nothing was working. My son who was with me went to get change for a £5 note, we gave the other gent one of the pound coins and it worked. We then paid for our parking. I am not mistaken, I know we paid.

The driver of the vehicle has been in touch with "Carparkers" and filled in an on line form confirming who was driving (I know, I know). I appealed the charge because I know I paid. I also asked for evidence that my car was not displaying the ticket, I know it was (I didn't keep the ticket unfortunately). They have not responded directly to my question asking why there was no photo of car without the pay and display ticket. My contention is that there is not one because it would have shown my ticket displayed.

I am now at the stage where I have had "final reminder"

I attach scans of the three letters received, also the letter denying my appeal. There is also a "report" showing vehicles that allegedly paid around the same time but guess what, my vehicle not there.

I don't feel I should pay this charge as I know I paid. Any advice appreciated.

Initial PCN and Reminders

And

Appeal Rejection Letter

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andy_foster

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2024, 06:25:20 pm »
If the driver has already identified himself, then the third person "the driver did x" is meaningless.

There is a school of thought (mine) that if you have a meritorious defence, particularly if it relies on your credibility, then technical defences can be counterproductive.

Appeal rejections generally do not address the issues raised in the appeal, because they are not material to the question "do we still want them to give us money?". If you can get the ticket cancelled at an early stage - whether at the initial appeal to the PPC, or on appeal to POPLA,  that's great. If not, nothing has changed - they will send you threatening letters and you can either pay up, or they can decide whether or not to try to sue you and prove to a judge that you owe them the money demanded.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

guest1290

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2024, 06:36:21 pm »
If the driver has already identified himself, then the third person "the driver did x" is meaningless.

There is a school of thought (mine) that if you have a meritorious defence, particularly if it relies on your credibility, then technical defences can be counterproductive.

Appeal rejections generally do not address the issues raised in the appeal, because they are not material to the question "do we still want them to give us money?". If you can get the ticket cancelled at an early stage - whether at the initial appeal to the PPC, or on appeal to POPLA,  that's great. If not, nothing has changed - they will send you threatening letters and you can either pay up, or they can decide whether or not to try to sue you and prove to a judge that you owe them the money demanded.

Thanks. I am out of time for POPLA, just over 28 days

I am minded to ignore demands for payment as I know I paid the parking fee and they have provided no evidence to show my car was not displaying the ticket (which it states on their signs must be displayed). Am I Better now to ignore correspondence
demanding payment or is there any merit in further dialogue with Carparkers. Obviously if they do file a case at county court then I will engage with that.

DWMB2

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2024, 06:46:42 pm »
There is a school of thought (mine) that if you have a meritorious defence, particularly if it relies on your credibility, then technical defences can be counterproductive.
This is a school of thought I generally follow too when it comes to charges that make their way to court.

I imagine I know the answer to this, as if you did you'd have probably mentioned it, but: do you have the Pay & Display ticket?

Another one to rule out for the sake of completeness - have you checked the list of Registrations provided to check there aren't any similar ones (or ones for other cars you have access to etc.) in case you made an inputting error?

b789

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2024, 12:10:33 am »
Quote
Thanks. I am out of time for POPLA, just over 28 days

Despite them telling you that you have 28 days to appeal to POPLA, the code lasts for 32 days. So, if you are not past the 32 day threshold, you can still use your code and put in a POPLA appeal.

Quote
…is there any merit in further dialogue with Carparkers.

Your initial “dialogue” with the PPC has already scuppered your “golden ticket” as the NtK is not PoFA compliant. Further dialogue with them is not likely to get you anywhere.

Concentrate on getting a good POPLA appeal in before the 32 day deadline. POPLA will only consider whether the PCN was issued correctly based on legalities and the BPA CoP. They will not entertain any mitigating circumstances.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2024, 12:22:11 am by b789 »

H C Andersen

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2024, 10:25:58 pm »
The POPLA deadline has passed, their rejection was dated 23 Jan. 34 days ago.

OP, you posted: I know it was[displayed] (I didn't keep the ticket unfortunately).

Also: They have not responded directly to my question asking why there was no photo of car without the pay and display ticket.

...because you were caught by ANPR cameras and therefore there aren't photos other than of your car entering and leaving. Their assertion that payment was not made comes from a comparison of payments registered by the machines against your VRM and the camera's evidence. To bolster their claim they have provided a full schedule of payments around the time you say you paid i.e. between 12.08 and 12.24.

You've seen this, we haven't. As per others, could you have mistyped your VRM?

I would also ask why you paid £1 for 15 minutes, this seems a high tariff, and why were you there for only 15 minutes and are you sure that where you parked is the site in question..we do see threads where a driver pays at machine A thinking it's the correct one only to find out it wasn't, it was next door's!

guest1290

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2024, 09:41:13 am »

You've seen this, we haven't. As per others, could you have mistyped your VRM?

I have posted the log they shared, it is linked in first post with the Appeal Rejection letter. There are only 2 registrations and neither of them are anywhere close to mine.I am 100% sure I paid whatever their log says. Unfortunately I do not have the ticket.


I would also ask why you paid £1 for 15 minutes, this seems a high tariff, and why were you there for only 15 minutes and are you sure that where you parked is the site in question..we do see threads where a driver pays at machine A thinking it's the correct one only to find out it wasn't, it was next door's!

I paid £1 which was the minimum charge for up to 30 minutes. I paid at the correct machine. I only needed 15 minutes, I don’t understand why that is questioned.

H C Andersen

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2024, 11:50:23 am »
Because it's part of the context. Frustrating as it might be, you have NO objective evidence in support of your claim. You would therefore be relying on the court - and this is the next formal step- taking your account over the evidence of the PPC. Ask yourself, why should the court disregard the PPC's evidence? Perhaps if you had a very convincing circumstantial account...which is why I asked the questions.

Pl don't fall into the trap which some posters do of letting your frustration at the creditor spill over into your posts.

If you can, we need photos of the Ts and Cs on the noticeboards and any additional instructions on the payment machines.


guest1290

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2024, 11:59:02 am »

Pl don't fall into the trap which some posters do of letting your frustration at the creditor spill over into your posts.


Where did I do this?

H C Andersen

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2024, 12:34:08 pm »
Can you obtain the necessary photos as requested?

guest1290

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2024, 01:19:34 pm »
Can you obtain the necessary photos as requested?

It’s a little ironic that you offered advice on posting style and etiquette then ignored my question.


DWMB2

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2024, 01:23:49 pm »
Let's play nicely folks.

The images mentioned would be useful - they form the basis of the alleged contract.

guest1290

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2024, 01:30:55 pm »
Let's play nicely folks.

The images mentioned would be useful - they form the basis of the alleged contract.

I am simply asking for clarification on where I “allowed my frustration to spill over”

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

DWMB2

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2024, 01:34:19 pm »
My previous message was aimed at both of you.
I think it’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask.
The answer to which will be of no consequence in regards to helping you with your parking charge, which is the purpose of this forum. Focus on that.

guest1290

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Re: Carparkers PCN Lowestoft, I know I paid, Advice please
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2024, 01:56:47 pm »
My previous message was aimed at both of you.
I think it’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask.
The answer to which will be of no consequence in regards to helping you with your parking charge, which is the purpose of this forum. Focus on that.

Eh, no. Thanks for advice till now. Tatty bye. ✋