Author Topic: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.  (Read 326 times)

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DWMB2

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2024, 08:59:11 am »
Quote
My understanding therefore is they are likely to then 'reset the clock' on these parking charge notices? 
They might, but personally I'd be very surprised if they did. They'll probably just say the notices were sent, and that their deadline for appeals has passed.

b789

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2024, 09:33:02 am »
You need to appeal each PCN separately. What you have suggested writing is fine. However, I doubt they will “reset the clock”.

You must remember that you are dealing with a, mostly, automated money making machine. Any human involvement/intervention is likely to be by someone who is intellectually malnourished and incapable of understanding the minutiae of your arguments.

Regarding the status of the location, you seem reluctant to accept that it is National Rail railway asset, leased by the TOC, Abelio Greater Anglia and operated on a commercial basis by NCP. None of that detracts from the fact that, as a railway asset, it is covered by bylaws, whether there are signs there or not.

It is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA and, as such, only the driver can be liable for any alleged breach of contract. Keep that in mind whether they accept your allegation that they never sent the original NtKs.

Consider your correspondence as a complaint rather than an appeal. The reason for that is, should they not reset the clock which would allow you to appeal to POPLA, you are then in a position to complain to the BPA regarding their breach of rule 23.8 of the current BPA CoP.

Should none of the above work, you are then in the limbo state of waiting to see if they try to make a claim. You would receive a flurry of debt collector letters which you can safely ignore. If/when they send you an LoC which you can respond to, robustly, you will again be in a position to argue that you cannot be liable as the keeper and to bring on the claim.

Whilst they may never get to this stage, there is still the possibility, because of their intellectual malnourishment, that they will issue a claim in their greedy hope that you are gullible enough to capitulate and pay up. Defending any claim robustly is very likely to lead to a discontinuation because they really don’t want a judge to spank them in court.

b789

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2024, 09:44:53 am »
I would also suggest that you write to your MP, outlining the failures of NCP. I would also highlight the fact that NCP and Greater Anglia (Abellio East Anglia Limited) (AGA) have no signs at the location that indicate that the railway asset land is covered by bylaws. I’m sure there’s some breach of a rule in there. I would also copy in the head of AGA.

CurtLemmington

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2024, 02:04:26 pm »
Thank you @b789. I am not necessarily reluctant to accept it is railway land - I am in fact certain of it based on the information I have obtained and you have helpfully provided. I am concerned if I include the reference to it being non relevant land it comes off as too aggressive? They would then take an aggressive stance back - perhaps I am overthinking this.

My appeal would therefore read:

"I, as registered keeper of XX, did not receive any initial letters before the Final Reminder letters were received on 22nd February 2024. I have therefore submitted a Subject Access Request to receive a copy of the original Notice to Keeper letters to which I await a response.

As your allegation of a breach of terms occurred on land subject to statutory control by bylaws, it is not relevant land for the purposes of the Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and therefore there can be no keeper liability."

Would very much appreciate thoughts on this.

As a side note, and sorry for going out of scope here, would receiving a LoC impact my credit score? I am looking to move house this year and don't particularly want anything to materially affect my mortgage application.

b789

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2024, 02:09:48 pm »
Your response is adequate.

You cannot affect your credit score, even if it went to court and you lost the claim and received a CCJ. As long as a CCJ is paid in full within 30 days, it is expunged from your record as though it was never there in the first place.

Receiving an LoC or a claim has no effect on your credit record at all. This is a civil matter and unless you actually lose a claim in court and don't pay the order within 30 days of the CCJ, there is no record of it.

Likewise, if you do get a CCJ which is has been filed and you successfully get it set aside, it will be completely expunged from your record.

What you don't want is to get a CCJ and then pay it later than 30 days as then it remains on your record for 6 years but marked as "satisfied". Whilst maybe not quite as bad was an unsatisfied CCJ, it will still severely affect your ability to obtain credit and will affect just about everything including inflated insurance premiums.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 02:12:21 pm by b789 »

DWMB2

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2024, 02:11:52 pm »
I am looking to move house this year
If/when you do move, if this matter is unresolved, you must inform the parking company of your new address.

CurtLemmington

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2024, 02:18:12 pm »
Sorry I don't know how to do the quotes in my reply!

My response is adequate refers to my revised appeal including reference to the Non-Relevant Land or the one earlier in the thread? I suspect my latest wording - I will submit today and keep you all updated. Really appreciated.

Thank you for the info also re: credit score.

Thanks @DWMB2 - very much noted.

b789

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2024, 02:35:00 pm »
Referencing the fact that you are aware that the car park is not on relevant land for the purposes of PoFA is not being aggressive. It is highlighting that you are not low hanging fruit on the gullible tree.

You have been aggressively invoiced for Ł300 by an unregulated private parking company, for what? They have obtained your personal data from the DVLA knowing that they cannot hold you liable as the keeper in the hope that you either dob yourself in the mire by deliberately or inadvertently revealing yourself to also be the driver when there is absolutely no legal requirement for you to do so.

You really need to be aware of how this scam (Hansard) works. As long as you are aware that you are not liable for the alleged debt, you can be as aggressive as you like. Personally, I am very aggressive when it comes to ex-clamper thugs trying to extort my hard earned cash and I take full advantage of all the breaches of contract that the scammers try to use.

If I was in your situation, I would be writing the following:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. Your NtK is for an alleged breach of contract on land that is under statutory control making it impossible to hold the keeper liable. NCP have no hope at POPLA or in court, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable. As a matter of fact and law, NCP (as a longstanding BPA Parking operator) will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because this is not 'relevant land'. If Greater Anglia wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Railway Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely, but not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because NCP is not the Station owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for NCP’s own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and NCP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only. The registered keeper cannot be presumed to have been, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency.

As I only ever received the Final Reminder letter on 22nd February 2024, I have therefore submitted a Subject Access Request to receive a copy of the original NtK to which I await a response. In the meantime I would suggest that you refer to the BPA CoP paragraph 23.8 and reissue the original NtK and start the clock running again at which point I will submit an appeal and if rejected, you will be required to provide me with a POPLA code where we both know an appeal by the keeper will be upheld.

I advise you to consider this correspondence as an official complaint, not an appeal and, as such, requires a response within the required timescale that can be escalated to the BPA if necessary.

You should respond to each NtK separately.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 02:40:02 pm by b789 »

CurtLemmington

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2024, 08:26:35 pm »
Individual appeal / complaints have been submitted.

Thanks again for all your help - I will keep the thread updated when I hear anything.

CurtLemmington

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2024, 03:53:55 pm »
All three PCN's have been cancelled! Thank you all so much for your help. Absolute Heroes!

b789

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2024, 03:57:09 pm »
Great news. Well done.

Did you submit the 'meek and mild' or the 'Mr Angry from Purley' response?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 04:04:16 pm by b789 »
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CurtLemmington

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Re: Cambridge North NCP Car Park - 3x PCN served at the same time.
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2024, 07:09:47 am »
Toned it down slightly but not much