3. Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #15 on: »
Very tactfully put!
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote
Sorry b789, there is no prescribed form, notice or whatever to send to the driver.
Agreed. If the driver is known, then the niceties of PoFA lose much of their relevance.

That said, b789's point about the procedural balls ups are fair - if the driver has been named as the driver, then Britannia shouldn't be issuing something called a "notice to hirer" and referencing PoFA.

A question to the OP - have you seen exactly what was submitted by the keeper? Is it possible they (wrongly) named them as the hirer instead?
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 30, 2024, 05:29:10 pm
The response is simple:
Thank you for your Parking Charge Notice titled Notice to Hirer.

As you know, when served a Notice to Hirer must be accompanied by four prescribed documents as follows:
A copy of the original Notice to Keeper;

A statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

A copy of the hire agreement; and

A copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

As you know, none of the above was supplied and therefore you are unable to invoke the provisions of para. 14(1) of Schedule 4 to PoFA.

I cannot help you further in this matter.

But where would this leave the registered keeper?

Having read the relevant paragraphs in PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 Paragraph 14(2), it very much seems like they have failed to do this and therefore the above response would clearly outline how they have failed to follow guidance!
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #18 on: »
Would it be reasonable to appeal mentioning the notice's failure to follow PoFA Schedule 4 Paragraph 4(2) (they didn't provide the relevant documentation) as well as BPA CoP's 22.10 (they mentioned PoFA when they shouldn't have)?

Or would the driver in some way be shooting themselves in the foot to go with both approaches at once?

Thanks
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #19 on: »
I doubt that whatever you put in your appeal will result in a win at this stage. What is required is for Britannia to provide you with a POPLA code where this is likely to be won.

As the NtH was sent to the driver, it should be the driver that responds. The keeper no longer has any liability and that has been acknowledged.

Whilst I don’t disagree with @H C Andersen about the terminology about an NtD which I should have referred to so solely as a PCN, I think that pointing out that as an NtH, there is no advantage highlighting the reasons that it fails PoFA because that is only used to show that the keeper cannot be liable and we have already established that keeper liability has been transferred anyway.

Britannia have failed to follow the correct procedure to be able to hold the driver liable because they have issued the wrong type of invoice. Any appeal should simply point out that Britannia have failed to follow the required procedure and should simply cancel the PCN or issue you with a POPLA code.

I don’t think there is any mileage in detailing their mistake at this stage. Just get the POPLA code and have them deal with it.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote from: DWMB2 on June 30, 2024, 09:39:09 pm
A question to the OP - have you seen exactly what was submitted by the keeper? Is it possible they (wrongly) named them as the hirer instead?
This question is worth answering.
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: DWMB2 on June 30, 2024, 10:34:28 pm
Quote from: DWMB2 on June 30, 2024, 09:39:09 pm
A question to the OP - have you seen exactly what was submitted by the keeper? Is it possible they (wrongly) named them as the hirer instead?
This question is worth answering.

Th driver has not seen what the keeper submitted. However, the driver did also receive this alongside the NtH: https://imgur.com/a/xaBPBLs

Apologies for not sharing this earlier. No other documents were enclosed with this and the NtH.

I hope the answer and the extra document help!
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: forrestam123 on June 30, 2024, 03:31:03 pm
The keeper then named the driver by filling the online transfer of liability form at britpark.com on 28/05/24.

The keeper received this email, also on 28/05/24, in response:

Thank you for your transfer of liability. We can confirm we have received this regarding ticket number [redacted].

Should we be unable to process your transfer of liability, we will be in touch within 14 days.

The notice to hirer (in original post) was then addressed to and received by the person identified by the keeper as the driver.

The evidence shows that the keeper transferred liability to the driver. Britannia have not been in touch within 14 days of the liability transfer. Britannia has erred by sending an NtH.

Just get the POPLA code and have POPLA deal with it.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #23 on: »
@b789 - I have been reviewing PoFA 2012 and BPA CoP and cannot find what you are referencing. Where does is state that the creditor must be in touch with the driver within 14 days of the liability transfer?

Thanks
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #24 on: »
It doesn't.

But Britannia said they would contact the keeper if they were unable to process the transfer of liability. As has been noted, they've cocked up by issuing a notice to hirer. The hope is that this **** up can be used to secure a cancellation on the basis of them failing to follow the BPA's code of practice.

Whether this will succeed or not is something that we cannot reliably predict without a crystal ball.
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #25 on: »
@DWMB2 - thanks for confirming.

Which part of BPA CoP are you referring to that they did not follow? Thanks
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #26 on: »
The one you mentioned yourself in reply #18, and any others you can find.
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #27 on: »
Thanks. I have since re-read BPA CoP 22.10 and am now less sure about its relevance... it reads as follows:

Your letter to the keeper should point out the details of
the unauthorised parking event and ask for payment or
request details of the driver. If you are not making use of
the keeper liability provisions of POFA or you are unable
to achieve the deadlines specified therein, your letter must
not reference POFA or state that the keeper is liable.
If the parking charge notice is not being issued under the
provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 it
must not reference this legislation.

This point seems to be in reference to a letter to the keeper, when in fact the driver is not appealing a letter to the keeper. Therefore, whether they mention PoFA or not no longer seems relevant... what do you think?
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: b789 on June 30, 2024, 07:50:19 pm
FYI, BPA CoP 22.11

It is the driver’s responsibility to pay the parking charge notice. If you receive information from the keeper which identifies the driver, and the driver is someone else, you must serve the parking charge notice by post on the driver.

The NtH is, in effect, a PCN.

BPA CoP 22.10

Your letter to the keeper should point out the details of the unauthorised parking event and ask for payment or request details of the driver. If you are not making use of the keeper liability provisions of POFA or you are unable to achieve the deadlines specified therein, your letter must not reference POFA or state that the keeper is liable.

If the parking charge notice is not being issued under the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 it must not reference this legislation.

The NtH was sent as a PCN to the driver. As the NtH is the PCN sent to the driver, it has breached the BPA CoP because it references PoFA.

As this is still an unregulated industry, there is nothing in the BPA CoP that directly covers a PCN issued after keeper (except 22.11) liability has been transferred subsequent to the issue of an NtK. Any delay in issuing the new PCN to the driver could be deemed as being unreasonable.

As they already notified the keeper that should there be any issue with the new PCN, they would respond within 14 days. So, 14 days is a reasonable period to assume for service of the PCN.

The “PCN” they issued was the NtH. The question for POPLA is “was the PCN issued correctly?” It wasn’t must surely be the correct answer.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 01:12:36 pm by b789 »
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Re: Britannia Parking PCN - St Johns Road Car Park, Birmingham
« Reply #29 on: »
Appeal submitted yesterday - I will keep you all updated!
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