Author Topic: Britannia Parking Group / DCB Legal Ltd – Failed To Make A Valid Payment – The Pavilion, London, W12 0HQ  (Read 2995 times)

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Hello all,

I received a letter from The County Court yesterday, which includes a Claim Form, Response Pack, Defence and Counterclaim, and Admission Form.

I’ve taken some time to try to understand what it is and why I have received it. It included a link to moneyclaim.gov.uk so I have created an account there so I can check what it is, however, there is no images attached or anything that helps me to understand what is going on – just that claimant “Britannia Parking Group Ltd” are making a claim against me for £329.52 and this was issued on 10/9/2024. Thereafter, I have options for submitting Acknowledgement of Service and multiple Response Forms.

As per the forum guide, I have scanned and redacted the forms I received and I have uploaded them to Imgur and attached to this post.

The forum guide also mentions to take photos of the car park signage but I don’t live close. It is not impossible for me to get these though, just a challenge is all – so if they would make a significant difference then please advise and I shall endeavour to get photos.

I am unsure how relevant the photos would be, however, as the Claim Form states that “the PCN(s) were issued on 07/07/2019”.

I do recognise the pub/ bar and I have visited it once, when colleagues and I (from a previous job) had drinks there on one occasion. My memory is pretty good but I don’t explicitly remember the parking details of one evening amongst many, over 5 years ago.

With that said, there is niggle in my mind about parking being free for 2 or 3 hours for paying customers of the pub – or something along those lines. I would presume that I would have adhered to this, or certainly tried my best to.

Since yesterday, I have tried to find a transaction from the pub dated then but my personal account doesn’t have one and my Amex doesn’t allow me to check that far back. I have also checked just in case there is a photo taken whilst there with colleagues, but I do not have any. I have checked my email to see if I had an email receipt for paying for parking but there is nothing there either.

The idea that someone comes along over 5 years later and says hey, give me £330 is difficult to swallow. I haven’t even had the car for over 2.5 years as it was written off on 7/2/2022. I was also at a different address in 2019, as I moved in May 2021.

I want to fight against this but this is all new to me and the threat on the letters of me having CCJ’s against me feels like they’re trying to intimidate me into paying something which I honestly believe is absurd. I would so grateful for any help you guys can please provide on how to proceed with this.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2024, 04:06:44 pm by DWMB2 »

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Welcome. We only need to see the first page of the claim. The other forms you can dispose of and you may want to delete the images of those on this thread to make it slightly more manageable.

With an "issue date" of 10th September, you have until Sunday 29th September to submit the Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) through the MCOL website. There is no advantage to delaying the AoS but do not miss the deadline for doing so.

Once the AoS has been submitted, you them have until 4pm on Monday 14th October to submit your defence. That's plenty of time to prepare. For now, follow the advice in the linked PDF on how to submit your AoS. Under no circumstances use the defence text box on MCOL. Do not put even a comma in there as that would be the sum total of your defence.

The defence will be submitted as a PDF attachment to an email. Once we've had a chance to look at the claim, we can assist in preparing a defence to the claim. As it has been filed by DCB Legal, I would put money on the claim eventually being discontinued before any hearing.

You are correct with your assessment that this a scam. However, you are not dealing with normal humans.

Here are a couple of threads with a much more complex claim that includes the defences we provide and also the witness statement:

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/vcs-bristol-airport-missed-failed-appeal-email-170-demand-for-payment/

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/received-two-pcns-from-april-2023-with-legal-and-court-fees-on-top-but-1256/

« Last Edit: September 13, 2024, 04:09:17 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I've removed the additional pages.

Will add Britannia to Euro Car Parks as an operator seemingly trawling through their back catalogue recently.

Welcome. We only need to see the first page of the claim. The other forms you can dispose of and you may want to delete the images of those on this thread to make it slightly more manageable.

With an "issue date" of 10th September, you have until Sunday 29th September to submit the Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) through the MCOL website. There is no advantage to delaying the AoS but do not miss the deadline for doing so.

Once the AoS has been submitted, you them have until 4pm on Monday 14th October to submit your defence. That's plenty of time to prepare. For now, follow the advice in the linked PDF on how to submit your AoS. Under no circumstances use the defence text box on MCOL. Do not put even a comma in there as that would be the sum total of your defence.

The defence will be submitted as a PDF attachment to an email. Once we've had a chance to look at the claim, we can assist in preparing a defence to the claim. As it has been filed by DCB Legal, I would put money on the claim eventually being discontinued before any hearing.

You are correct with your assessment that this a scam. However, you are not dealing with normal humans.

Here are a couple of threads with a much more complex claim that includes the defences we provide and also the witness statement:

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/vcs-bristol-airport-missed-failed-appeal-email-170-demand-for-payment/

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/received-two-pcns-from-april-2023-with-legal-and-court-fees-on-top-but-1256/

Thank you for the detailed reply. Also, apologies for clogging the space, and thank you @DWMB2 for removing the unnecessary attachments in my lost post.

I have tried reading the 2 threads you linked but that's some challenging reading due to people asking for advice then going ahead and not using it. So, I have just saved them out as PDF's which I will print and highlight the advice provided so I can drown out some of the waffle - like when advice is asked for then not listened to.

I have just now logged into the MCOL website intending to submit the AoS. I appreciate I am fairly close to the deadline of tomorrow but I have been up to my eyes for the last 12 days which is why I am now intending to give this it's due allocation of my mental resources rather than half as much, as it would have had should I have began last week.

I thank you for your advice on not using the MCOL website to submit my defence, and will do exactly that. However, you mentioned a linked PDF on how to submit the AoS but I am unable to see that - I have the 2 linked threads and I've looked through the forum stickies but do not see anything on advice for how to submit the AoS.

Are you saying that this link to the PDF advice on how to do the AoS on MCOL does not work?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r7pj2q44de5r7dg97yi83/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?rlkey=9y9gfemyylmprpjfdimw49qpk&st=136161m2&dl=0

If not, what error message or problem are you getting?

Don't try and read it in DropBox. Download it to your computer/device and open it there.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Are you saying that this link to the PDF advice on how to do the AoS on MCOL does not work?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r7pj2q44de5r7dg97yi83/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?rlkey=9y9gfemyylmprpjfdimw49qpk&st=136161m2&dl=0

If not, what error message or problem are you getting?

Don't try and read it in DropBox. Download it to your computer/device and open it there.

Nope, works fine. I haven't seen that link before and didn't find it within the stickies at the top of the Private parking tickets forum list.

Just downloaded and opened it in Adobe. Printing it now and shall shortly follow the advice therein, thanks.

With an "issue date" of 10th September, you have until Sunday 29th September to submit the Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) through the MCOL website. There is no advantage to delaying the AoS but do not miss the deadline for doing so.

Once the AoS has been submitted, you them have until 4pm on Monday 14th October to submit your defence. That's plenty of time to prepare. For now, follow the advice in the linked PDF on how to submit your AoS. Under no circumstances use the defence text box on MCOL. Do not put even a comma in there as that would be the sum total of your defence.

The defence will be submitted as a PDF attachment to an email. Once we've had a chance to look at the claim, we can assist in preparing a defence to the claim. As it has been filed by DCB Legal, I would put money on the claim eventually being discontinued before any hearing.

I submitted the AoS through MCOL on 28th September.

As I have to submit my defence by Monday coming, I have made an attempt at creating a defence, having copied it over from your previous linked thread (Received two PCNs from April 2023 with legal and court fees on top but this is the first time I am hearing about this).

I have changed the claim no. to the claim no. on the claim form I received; the Claimant to BRITANNIA PARKING GROUP LTD; the Defendant to my name.

I have then edited paragraphs 3 and 4 to:

3. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief. Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The PoC is devoid of any detail and even lacks specific breach allegation(s), making it very difficult to respond. However, it is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle.

4. The Defendant has parked at The Pavilion, London, W12 0HQ on one occasion whilst visiting The Pavilion, London, W12 0HQ as a patron of the pub and restaurant. Notwithstanding the long time between alleged PCN and the claim being brought against the Defendant, it is the belief of the Defendant that they recall a parking sign stating parking was free for patrons of The Pavilion, London, W12 0HQ and further believes they confirmed this detail with staff upon entering the premises. The Defendant believes they adhered to the parking conditions and were unaware of any PCN relating to parking in The Pavilion, London, W12 0HQ, being issued against them until receiving this claim from CNBC.

Do I need to print the defence, sign it and scan it (not an issue as I have a printer & scanner but just want to know if I should), then save it to PDF to email it?

I have not added the CEL V Chan transcript jpg's yet - do I need to include the line stating "CEL V Chan transcript jpg's inserted here" (highlighted in red in previous thread) immediately before, or should I remove this line?

As I have copied over the defence from the other thread - are all of the paragraphs relevant or should I remove some? Likewise, is there anything additional which was not relevant then but is now and which I should include?

After the defence is ready to go and saved to as PDF - is it worth sending before Monday 14th October or (as was mentioned in the other thread relating to the WS), should I wait until 1530 on Monday 14th October just before the 4PM deadline?

I don't advise using the long defence from the MSE forum. It is an overly long boilerplate that judges do not like.

If this sin't struck-out at allocation stage, then it will be discontinued before the trial fee has to be paid, early next year.

Here is suggested defence and also a Draft Order to go with it:

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

[Claimant's Full Name]


Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim.
 The Defendant has no specific recollection of the parking details from the visit over five years ago but believes they would have complied with any requirements for paying customers and, given the passage of time and lack of adequate particulars in the claim, is unable to provide further details.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).


3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.5;

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action.

4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond properly to the claim.


Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

You only need to change the claimant and your names, the claim number and then sign it by typing you full name for the signature and date it.

Here is a link to the Draft Order that will accompany the defence. There is nothing to edit in this:

Short Defence Draft Order

When ready, attach both to an email and send it to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov and CC in yourself. Make sure you also get the cut-response from the CNBC.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2024, 02:46:04 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Quote
the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case
This is possibly a moot point if you use the suggested defence above, but I've always been wary about this line from the MSE template. It feels a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, to criticise the claimant for using cut-and-paste PoC, in a largely cut-and-paste defence.

Which is why the "short defence" does not use that terminology.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Agree Agree x 1 View List


...

You only need to change the claimant and your names, the claim number and then sign it by typing you full name for the signature and date it.

...

When ready, attach both to an email and send it to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov and CC in yourself. Make sure you also get the cut-response from the CNBC.

It is truly unbelievable what you do on here. I cannot begin to express my gratitude to you for the above.

I noted on your bio of your website with your catchphrase; perhaps there should be a link to a "buy @b789 a beer/coffee/fruit-smoothie" in there too - to pay back even the smallest of thanks.

I have just sent off the defence and accompanying copy of order and have received an email from claimresponses.cnbc myself, so shall presume from that it's gone through alright.

Thanks again. I shall update this when I hear back whatever is next!

EDIT: received email from myself as was cc'd (blasted new email client shows sender as claimresponse.cnbc rather than myself?!)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 08:26:36 pm by mikepapa »

You must also receive an auto-response email from the CNBC that acknowledges receipt. If you haven't had one within a few minutes, resend it. If still no auto-response, try using a different email agent.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

You must also receive an auto-response email from the CNBC that acknowledges receipt. If you haven't had one within a few minutes, resend it. If still no auto-response, try using a different email agent.

Thanks. I used Canary Mail (my usual app) twice but didn't receive anything so have downloaded Outlook and tried that. Didn't receive an auto-response there either until half an hour ago when I received an email from Mail Delivery System to say the email was not delivered and is undeliverable:

Quote
The original message was received at Tue, 8 Oct 2024 12:30:52 GMT
from [**my IP address**]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov>
    (reason: 554 5.4.6 Too many hops)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 5.4.6 Too many hops 26 (25 max): from <**my email address**> via localhost, to <claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov>

Is this a known thing, or is it simply just keep trying?


Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain