Author Topic: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue  (Read 672 times)

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Olihorton

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Hi, asking for advice for a friend - the buyer.
Situation is the house they are purchasing had spray foam insulation in the roof which their mortgage company advised would have to be removed and replaced with non-spray foam insulation prior to them even approving their mortgage offer. Apparently this is not uncommon now.

Vendor and buyer went halves on the cost of this. Contractor spoke to the council to explain what they were doing and how they were going to re-insulate and asked if they needed to comply with current building regs and were advised by the council that they did not need to. Reason for this is that current regs would mean deeper insulation than the existing rafter depth thereby decreasing height in the roof space which is not wanted due to it making the roof uncomfortably low.

Works now completed, mortgage company are happy and have issued the mortgage offer, but buyer’s solicitor refuses to proceed as she says it requires building regs approval. Buyers have stated they are happy to proceed regardless but solicitor refuses saying she has the mortgage company’s interests to be wary of. Indemnity is not possible as works have been carried out in the last 6 months.

Current only feasible solution seems to be sack current solicitor and lose all associated fees etc and try a new one and not disclose the insulation issue, but this will cost significant sums not to mention the delay on an already lengthy process to get this far. Any advice on any polite words/legal terminology to use to “force” the solicitor to move forward would be very welcome as surely she should only be acting in her clients’ interests and as instructed rather than worry about the mortgage company’s interests who have their own surveyors and legal team to think about these things.

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Southpaw82

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2024, 12:08:23 am »
It is very common for the purchaser’s solicitor to also act for the mortgage lender (not least because it keeps costs down for the borrower, who would otherwise have to pay, directly or indirectly, for the lender’s solicitor). The buyer will have agreed to this at the outset.

The solicitor therefore has two clients - the buyer and the lender. The solicitor will have to sign a certificate of title, certifying to the lender that all is good with the property. That will include compliance with building regulations. The purchaser cannot force the solicitor to sign the certificate of title, contrary to the instructions of the lender (who will have provided instructions to the solicitor as to what they must be satisfied of before they can sign the certificate of title).

The only way to resolve this, in my view, is if the solicitor explains the situation to the lender and gets them to agree that they can sign the certificate of title regardless of the issue that has arisen. Going to another solicitor and not disclosing the issue might work but that solicitor will carry out their own checks, which might flag up the same issue. The lender might also wonder why the solicitor has been sacked.

H C Andersen

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2024, 04:56:02 pm »
Contractor spoke to the council to explain what they were doing and how they were going to re-insulate and asked if they needed to comply with current building regs and were advised by the council that they did not need to.


In writing, of course?

In which case, why would the solicitor take a view contrary to the council's? It doesn't make sense IMO.

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Olihorton

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2024, 09:57:39 pm »
Thank you for taking the time to both read and reply to this little pickle of a situation.

Regards the building control - this is what doesn’t make sense to any of us. Seems to be that the solicitor does not agree with building control, but have asked my friends raise this same question previously and if they can have building control confirm in writing that the works do not need to comply then on what basis is she refusing to proceed.

I had no idea that the solicitor works for both, but fully understand the reasons why. I suspect my friends (as I have likely done in the past) have just signed on every dotted line put in front of them without paying due care and diligence to the details…

Points fully taken on board and I agree that seems to be the most sensible solution, it’s just very strange that Building Control have stated that the works do not need to comply with building regs, whereas the solicitor has advised they do creating something of an impasse which would, presumably, affect any other buyer until
6 months have passed and an indemnity might be purchased.

One question, if I may. Given, or assumed, that the solicitor is working on behalf of lender also, would they now be duty bound to report this issue to the lender? I’m just wondering if my friends take the nuclear option of sacking the current solicitor, not declaring the works to a new solicitor etc. would this be an absolute folly on their part as the damage, so to speak would already have been done with the lender.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2024, 10:01:25 pm by Olihorton »

Southpaw82

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2024, 10:23:59 pm »
One question, if I may. Given, or assumed, that the solicitor is working on behalf of lender also, would they now be duty bound to report this issue to the lender? I’m just wondering if my friends take the nuclear option of sacking the current solicitor, not declaring the works to a new solicitor etc. would this be an absolute folly on their part as the damage, so to speak would already have been done with the lender.

Depends on what your friend has signed. Normally, the duty of confidence would prevent the solicitor telling anyone else but if a waiver has been signed they can. Of course, if the solicitor’s duties conflict between lender and buyer, they will cease to act for both. If that happens, it’s pretty obvious to the lender what has happened, though they may not know the details.

Olihorton

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2024, 11:10:30 pm »
@Southpaw82 thank you, again. I will get all of your sage advice back to my friends and hope they can find a way through to a completion.

Oh, and @H C Andersen,  we’re in the wilds of North Somerset where the notion of getting something in writing from building control is as alien as those folk from the next village… It’s not unheard of one BCO advising you to do one thing and once done and needing to be signed off, a different BCO telling you it’s non-compliant and needs to be re-done to their liking!  Still - I suspect if not in writing already, getting this would be somewhat significant in progressing matters.

Thank you both again for your time!

slapdash

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2024, 06:28:02 pm »
One issue your friend may have is being absolutely certain of what B.C. want, but also what the lender wants.

Part L is the relevant part of the regs, but the compliance metrics will depend upon when the building was constructed, what renovations have been undertaken since and when, and any change of use (if B.C. regard it as major renovation then compliance with the current regs would be normal, otherwise the earlier regs, and if existing insulation was not removed when foamed it may comply).

You may need to escalate within B.C. and it may need inspection and certificate.

There are a number of issues with foam. Roof loadings due to weight, and rot in roof timbers are two major ones.

Some lenders will not lend even after removal taking a view that if the foam had been installed for a significant length of time the damage may already have been done and it cannot be easily verified (though your friends lender seems happy).
« Last Edit: July 14, 2024, 06:45:22 pm by slapdash »

mickR

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2024, 09:02:12 pm »
 it sounds to me its just removing foam and installing insulation in a pre existing roof with no alterations I can't see under what regulation BC would need to be involved.
if an independent report is req you could use a private BC or Surveyor.

andy_foster

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2024, 09:20:02 pm »
General rule (of thumb) is that building regs aren't retrospective, unless relevant work is being done to that part of the property.

Other than the general send three and fourpence and the consequent dentistry, it always concerns me when a poster states something as fact and then proceeds to cite an actual fact which merely indicates that their statement could potentially be true.
If the lender is happy with the loft as it now is, then seemingly no problem. If the lender has made an offer and therefore must be happy with it, you are Mr Hankey and I claim my £5.

There are technical solutions if the building regs need to be complied with, but not cheap. 100mm of Kingspan would have a roughly comparable U-value to 270mm of loftroll.

I have heard suggestions that a material change to the fabric of a property would void an existing EPC - although I suspect that that is more a case of good practice than an actual regulation.
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mickR

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2024, 12:44:30 am »
In which case, why would the solicitor take a view contrary to the council's? It doesn't make sense IMO.
it's actually quite common.

mickR

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2024, 10:38:10 am »
as @Andy points out, the lender has made an offer and therefore must be satisfied. I might be tempted to write to the Solicitor stating that fact and that they (the solicitor) is being unnecessarily obstructive.

Southpaw82

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2024, 11:55:30 am »
as @Andy points out, the lender has made an offer and therefore must be satisfied. I might be tempted to write to the Solicitor stating that fact and that they (the solicitor) is being unnecessarily obstructive.

What conditions is the offer subject to though?

andy_foster

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2024, 12:25:30 pm »
as @Andy points out, the lender has made an offer and therefore must be satisfied.

That was not what I was pointing out. That was pretty much the opposite of what I was pointing out.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

mickR

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2024, 01:56:56 pm »
what was the point you were making ?

Olihorton

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Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2024, 07:58:17 pm »
Thank you all for your points and replies - you’re a most helpful and knowledgable bunch.

I’ll pass on all the info as I’m not currently aware of what the specific conditions of the mortgage offer were other than the spray foam had to be removed.  Presumably it is fair to assume that this would imply any remedial works would need to comply with building regs even if this isn’t explicitly stated.

I think the easiest option for them is to approach BC themselves or appoint an independent BC to clarify.

Thanks again, all of you!