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Hi there, so my brother had paid someone 50£ from Facebook market place to dumb some rubbish. Later after couple of weeks we had 4 fpn's on my name,my brother, my sister and our landlord of 500£ each from dartford council for littering rubbish on the sidwalk. Dartford is like 40 min away from us across the Thames. The rubbish had amazon letters on all of our names with the addresses on it and that's how the council has sent the letters on our names. I appealed it to the council but it's refused and now we all have given till 30th of this month to pay 500£ each. Could someone help if how to deal with this please
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This appears to consider the case in the light of a third party to the offence. I don’t know whether the person that removed the waste had a waste carriers licence I think not otherwise you probably would have been provided with or requested a copy of the licence details. It looks on the face of it you have handed Jack the lad your money he/they have dumped the waste and inside are identifiable details not looking to good. However someone with greater knowledge may be able to assist in this arena.
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this subject has been brought up before. I may be wrong (yes I know it would be unusual
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but iirc the crucial argument was that they have no evidence that you deposited the litter only that it could be your litter and that the offence is for depositing.
I stand to be corrected by more learned members. -
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this subject has been brought up before. I may be wrong (yes I know it would be unusual
But the offence charged is not the depositing. It is "knowingly" causing or permitting the depositing. )
but iirc the crucial argument was that they have no evidence that you deposited the litter only that it could be your litter and that the offence is for depositing.
I stand to be corrected by more learned members.
I'd imagine it would be difficult to prove that all four people knew, or even to establish which one (or more) of the four actually commissioned the disposal of the waste. -
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The letter you have posted contains your full name and address and the FPN number and I recommend you remove it and re-post with those details covered up.
I'm not an expert on this but paying some bloke on Facebook £50 to get rid your household rubbish was a criminal offence unless he had a Waste Carriers Licence and provided you with details of his Licence. Section 34 (2A) Environmental Protection Act 1990. I am guessing that he didn't show a Waste Carriers Licence because he didn't have one. Then - surprise, surprise - he just drove to somewhere he couldn't be seen and dumped it on a pavement, ie Flytipping. (Why didn't you just put it for collection by the council of the Borough you live in if it was just household waste?).
The problem for you is that if you use an unlicensed waste carrier and they dump it somewhere illegally then the people that generated the rubbish - you and the people who lve in your household - may be legally liable for the flytipping. Flytipping is an offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and Dartford Council's Environmental Enforcement Policy says that the penalty notice they issue for flytipping is £500, which is what they have done.
What did you say in your appeal against the Fixed Penalty Notice? Dartford Council appear to be saying that as there was evidence of waste originating from four people at the address each of you are guilty of flytipping so they have issued each of you with a Penalty Notice. I would point you to section 5 (a) on page 18 of Dartford's Environmental Enforcement Policy which says:
"Where waste comes from multiple individuals in the household, the ‘duty of care’ applies to the individual occupier of the property, who is arranging the transfer of household waste produced in/from that property. "
https://www.dartford.gov.uk/downloads/file/2243/environmental-enforcement-policy-november-2023
That suggests to me that only the person who arranged for the bloke on Facebook to take the household's rubbish away (your brother) should have been given a penalty notice, not all four of you. Unfortunately for you normally councils only give you one opportunity to make 'representations'/appeals and as you have already done this you are now probably beyond the point where the council will consider any further apppeals or representations from you. Did the appeal say it was being made on behalf of all four of you?
So your options are for each of you to pay the £500 FPN you have received or any of you who fail to pay will be prosecuted in the Magistrates Court.
Whether you would have a defence if prosecuted I cannot say. Others may be able to advise. It would be helpful if you could post here your appeal to Dartford council and their response (cover up your name and address, penalty notice number, and any identifying details) so that we can see what admissions you made in your appeal. -
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The letter you have posted contains your full name and address and the FPN number and I recommend you remove it and re-post with those details covered up.
I'm not an expert on this but paying some bloke on Facebook £50 to get rid your household rubbish was a criminal offence unless he had a Waste Carriers Licence and provided you with details of his Licence. Section 34 (2A) Environmental Protection Act 1990. I am guessing that he didn't show a Waste Carriers Licence because he didn't have one. Then - surprise, surprise - he just drove to somewhere he couldn't be seen and dumped it on a pavement, ie Flytipping. (Why didn't you just put it for collection by the council of the Borough you live in if it was just household waste?).
But ... the council haven't alleged a breach of section 34(2(a)), but 33z. That requires each of the "accused" to have knowingly caused or permitted the illegal tipping. -
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But ... the council haven't alleged a breach of section 34(2(a)), but 33z. That requires each of the "accused" to have knowingly caused or permitted the illegal tipping.
The reference to the use of an unlicensed waste carrier was for OP's information (as that offence may have been committed by the OP's brother). As I said it appears the FPNs have been issued for "flytipping", presumably the section 33 (1) (a) offence you refer to. However it isn't fully clear what the council's allegation is because the only document we've seen from the council refers to a "section 33z" offence but there is no section 33z in the Act. OP hasn't told us what he did or didn't know at the time the rubbish was disposed of.
The OP may be able to get further advice here if he posts up redacted copies of
-- His original FPN
-- His appeal to the council
-- Their response
From the point of view of practical advice it seems the OP has made representations and they have been rejected so Dartford council may not permit any further representations to be made. In which case the OP is left with the options of paying the £500 FPN or going to the Magistrates and pleading not guilty but it's not evident at this point what defence he would offer in court. -