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Messages - JustLoveCars

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1
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Marginal Speeding Offence - Accuracy of Equipment
« on: June 04, 2026, 12:41:37 pm »
So you 'admit' to 56.8mph in a 50mph limit?

I think you can see where this is heading...  (I wouldn't call 13% over the limit as 'marginal')

The very threshold you refer to is to avoid such 'marginal' arguments.

As noted above, a prosecution can succeed for anything over the limit but in reality would not be pursued if it was 1mph or 2mph - most devices may publish an accuracy as +/-1 mph but are actually more accurate than that.  Indeed, the cosine effect can actually under report true speed anyway.

You are not going to escape an allegation of 57.3mph on this basis.  (Indeed, it's unusual that the allegation is so accurate, it's usually whole mph only)

2
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJPN after paying fixed penalty and providing licence number
« on: June 04, 2026, 10:28:04 am »
Quote from: msstress on June 04, 2026, 01:34:08 am
Is this the sort of case where fixed penalty equivalent sentencing may be appropriate?
The guidance says '...where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed.'

The sticky point is the 'difficulties' where within your control.  But don't ask, don't get.

3
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJPN after paying fixed penalty and providing licence number
« on: June 03, 2026, 07:34:06 pm »
Quote from: msstress on June 03, 2026, 05:38:36 pm
I have read the read this post first.
So did you do the part mentioned in the COFP section?  (It's not in your timeline)

4
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Police Traffic stop report - Driving without due care
« on: June 03, 2026, 11:30:51 am »
Quote from: Fazzy on June 03, 2026, 11:17:27 am
...but I will review his dashcam
That's rather handy...  Hopefully it has front and rear for the complete picture...

5
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Police Traffic stop report - Driving without due care
« on: June 03, 2026, 10:48:39 am »
The alleged offence (Careless) is described as where 'driving falls below the minimum standard expected of a competent and careful driver, or fails to show reasonable consideration for other road users'.

This is largely subjective so without knowing exactly what the officer alleges it's hard to comment.  I wouldn't imagine the manoeuvre was 'illegal' as such but the execution may have fallen foul of the description above, e.g. poor timing or causing someone else to deviate

Ultimately, it's up to your Dad whether he wants to accept an out of court settlement (course/fixed penalty) or defend the allegation at court.

If he opts for court and maintains a not guilty plea then the matter will likely go to trial - this can be very costly if found guilty.  The offence carries 3 to 9 points but sounds at the lower end of severity.

6
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP red light A240
« on: June 03, 2026, 08:39:11 am »
Quote from: allondon on June 02, 2026, 10:23:50 pm
though the position of the rear wheels is not visible in the evidence.
If Stevie Wonder is your Judge then that 'defence' may work.

Quote from: allondon on June 02, 2026, 10:23:50 pm
And I have to admit that I can't see the sensors around the stop line on the Street View.
See Here

7
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP red light A240
« on: June 02, 2026, 08:58:31 pm »
Amber is displayed for 3 seconds (+/- 0.25s) prior to red and means the same as red, i.e. stop.

However, you are allowed to pass at amber if you cannot (safely) stop prior to the stop line, i.e you are just too close to it when the light changes from green to amber.  Many seem to think the amber phase is some sort of signal to speed up or keep going until red is seen.  (Anecdotally more so in London)

So a time into red of 1 second is actually jumping the lights at around 4 seconds - plenty of time to stop if possible.  There's no need to ascertain whether the rear wheels are a few centimetres over the stop line - you're either coming to stop or continuing before red is illuminated.

If you come to a stop fully past the stop line then you can continue when it's safe to do so.  (Realistically most will wait for the lights to go green again)

It's also fine to come to a stop straddling the stop line - the offence occurs if any part of the vehicle moves over the line whilst red is illuminated.

If you look at the streetview you can see the buried piezoelectric sensors (They convert pressure into electric signals).  They are strategically placed around the stop line and they sense moving objects over them.  The sensors can be arranged in multiple pairs and can also operate as 'speed on green' cameras.

The above should answer your questions.

8
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP red light A240
« on: June 02, 2026, 06:26:58 pm »
Quote from: allondon on June 02, 2026, 06:02:53 pm
As it is from the police - there is no option to appeal or ask questions, just to identify the driver.
There is no 'appeal'.  (The driver has not been convicted)

Following an allegation of an offence then the sausage-machine kicks in.  The driver identity is requested, then the usual 'out of court' disposal will be offered - but the driver always has the option to take the matter to court should they want to defend (not appeal) the allegation.

The Police can always be engaged - but they may not choose to engage prior to court.

Quote from: allondon on June 02, 2026, 06:02:53 pm
I'd appreciate your understanding of the alleged offence and recommended actions.
From what I see in the photo's (they are not the full evidential versions) is that the blue Audi is straddling the stop line (bottom left picture) whilst the light is red.  Then in some small interval (Usually around 0.5s) the car has cleared the stop line (bottom right picture).

The offence is committed if any part of the vehicle moves over the stop line whilst red is illuminated - this appears to be the case?

I'll note the silver car in front appears to be stationary.  To me it looks like the traffic lights changed and the silver car came to a halt past the stop line and the blue Audi 'swerved' around them.  The silver car appears to have its brake lights illuminated on both snaps.

The top left picture is just a close up of the alleged offending vehicle.

9
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: 6 Points Already on License, Now received 2 different speeding notices (NIP) in one week, yet to respond to them.
« on: May 28, 2026, 08:12:47 pm »
The pictures are primarily to identify the vehicle and the offence.  However, yes, they may have better (evidential) photos than any they've supplied thus far.

Noting one insured driver has no points and the other could tot along with a question about photo quality does whiff of haddock...

The s172 requirement requires reasonable diligence to identify the driver (irrespective of the current number of points and the potential outcomes).  Of course, there's always the statutory defence if you do not know who was driving and could not identify them after the aforementioned diligence - but failing to convince the bench is 6 points apiece along with associated costs.

10
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP traffic light camera, Shoot Up Hill London NW2
« on: May 26, 2026, 10:20:04 pm »
That time into red is going to court regardless.

Pleading not guilty on the basis of those photos is going to be an expensive day out.

11
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Speeding NIP incorrectly calculating speed?
« on: May 19, 2026, 08:47:12 pm »
Quote from: radiola92 on May 19, 2026, 08:01:15 pm
Do you know if that camera records video footage and can I request it as evidence?
Yes it does.  Short of rejecting all out of court offers (Course/Fixed Penalty) they are unlikely supply any such footage.  (Then you are subject to court sentencing if convicted)

12
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Speeding NIP incorrectly calculating speed?
« on: May 19, 2026, 04:41:29 pm »
Quote from: radiola92 on May 19, 2026, 04:36:01 pm
Quote from: JustLoveCars on May 19, 2026, 04:26:38 pm
Without the pictures or knowing what sort of camera was involved it's impossible for us to say.  (Or at least give the location)

However, using such time over distance calculations where an instantaneous capture method was employed is generally fruitless.

Thanks, the calibration certificate says the camera is a Kustom LaserCam 4 Speed Meter and it was on the A11 around Red Lodge, Suffolk.
...then your time over distance calculations won't provide a defence.

Your speed was measured virtually instantaneously (Around 1/3s) - that peak/measured speed is all that matters.

13
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Speeding NIP incorrectly calculating speed?
« on: May 19, 2026, 04:26:38 pm »
Without the pictures or knowing what sort of camera was involved it's impossible for us to say.  (Or at least give the location)

However, using such time over distance calculations where an instantaneous capture method was employed is generally fruitless.

14
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate, Helmsley (Measurement dista
« on: May 19, 2026, 10:43:52 am »
Quote from: Thomas on May 19, 2026, 10:15:16 am
An even bigger issue has just come to light <snip> if the police have named the wrong street/location on the official Notice, does this constitute a "fatal flaw" in the prosecution's case? How strictly is the location requirement enforced in court for mobile speed van offences in North Yorkshire?
No. The location is merely directory.

Quote from: Thomas on May 19, 2026, 10:15:16 am
Could the foreshortening effect of a teleobiektyw lens distort the perspective so heavily that a car already on the physical bend appears to be at 347m, or is it possible the van was parked slightly further back than the Carlton Road layby (e.g., closer to Linkfoot Lane)?
It's possible - I can find any reference point on the supplied photo.

Quote from: Thomas on May 19, 2026, 10:15:16 am
Regarding the TRO - how can I check if the physical signs match the legal boundary for this specific stretch of the A170?
Contact the highways team at the local council.

15
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate, Helmsley (Measurement dista
« on: May 19, 2026, 09:08:36 am »
Quote from: andy_foster on May 18, 2026, 11:45:03 pm
Screenshot of the location is pointless - a GSV link would potentially enable us to perform a sanity check to determine whether the distance is consistent with the talivan being sited at the "approved" site.
Seems to be here.

Quote from: andy_foster on May 18, 2026, 11:45:03 pm
I would dispute the assertion that there is no such thing as an "approved site", and replace it with the assertion that "approval" is essentially meaningless.
Well, yes.  NYP may well have sites listed but any such 'approval' is merely internal.

Their public-facing stats just list 'A170 Bondgate, Helmsley'.  I can't find anything more specific but the layby near Carlton Road (Which is just over 350m away from the 40mph terminal sign) looks like a prime spot.

There's potentially a secondary question around whether the 40mph terminal sign (if it is a close ping) is located in the correct position relative to the TRO.

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