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Messages - PeacefulWarrior

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 14, 2023, 06:52:16 pm »
Yes, I can imagine. Having lived not far from a neighborhood predominantly populated by gypsies, I know they are usually proud, independent people, who don't take kindly to intimidation. Bailiffs would not be able to scare them. But that would be a totally different can of worms in itself, that I would rather leave unopened.
In my case, we are talking about a 15 yo minor alone on the premises. While a pending N244 was in the Court. Hardly any reasons for using unreasonable force like breaking doors down to smithereens'. I am still searching for the exact link to the bit of legislation that says something about agents not being allowed to proceed when that is the case. I'm sure I will soon find it, just need some more time. 

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 14, 2023, 06:05:02 pm »
Having read back through the thread, it appears that you were wrong as to the law (HCEOs can't enter with force to effect an eviction) and rosywillow was correct, as you've acknowledged. I don't really get your last post, which seems just to be an effort at saving face by you.

According to Citizen Advice:

'They aren't allowed to break down your door - they have to use 'reasonable force'. This means they'll have to come back with a locksmith who will unlock the door.'

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/stopping-bailiffs/stopping-bailiffs-at-your-door/

Looks like I was right after all?

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 14, 2023, 05:52:43 pm »
Not suggesting anything. Just answering to cp8759  :)

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 14, 2023, 05:05:26 pm »
Hahahaha...good one and fair enough. I guess the saying could be amended for the legal forums as such:


He who knows, does not speak about things he knows little about. He who speaks when knowing little, does not know when to be quiet.


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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 14, 2023, 03:56:32 pm »
He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.

Lao Tzu

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 14, 2023, 03:26:12 pm »
The reason I backed off and didn't answer lately is due to the fact that I did not come here to be judged by anyone, or to be called names. Looking back at the messages just now, some were less than kind or helpful. Let alone supportive. And I am still amazed how many people think they know exactly what the law says, while being totally misguided and giving ill informed advice. This only leads to other people bowing their heads in front of injustice, because they didn't know their true rights.

When I posted this and said I needed 'help', I meant I was looking for actual, practical help to deal with the situation, and not 'I think you should be doing this, because this is what I would do if I were you': rosywillow getting my thanks here, as she was one on point, every time. 

Thank you all for your advice, no matter whether it was based on actual law or just influenced by TV shows, hear say or any other questionable sources. I know you all meant well, so it is appreciated nevertheless.

As for the curious minds? I won't torture you much longer and rest assured I will update this thread in due time, once I have more details, so we can all learn from this experience. For the time being I will not engage in any further speculations about what may or may not happen. All that matters is that one should stick to his guns and follow his conscience, no matter what. The truth will prevail in the end, always.

For the time being, I will leave you with the immortal words of a great, wise man:

He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.

Lao Tzu

7
Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 01, 2023, 02:55:55 pm »
If you drip-feed things and omit key information it's hard for anyone to be specific!

Do bear in mid not everything is enshrined in law and indeed the law seldom says what one CAN do and most often prescribes what one CANNOT.

I didn't realize I was drip-feeding information, I was just presented things as they were unfolding. If it appeared so, it wasn't my intention.
I get what you are saying about the law and my intention is to find out exactly what the person named on the writ cannot/is not supposed to be doing, before he actually comes and does his deed. Preempting is always better than remedying, just as prevention is always better than a cure.

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 01, 2023, 02:49:12 pm »
Nobody needs to prove anything to you. You can either accept the advice given or not.

'Nobody needs to prove anything to you.' I never asked for proof of anything, just references. And what you say may be so, yet it would be nice if people relied on actual law when advising people, not personal opinion, wouldn't you agree?

'You can either accept the advice given or not.' Indeed.

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 01, 2023, 02:09:09 pm »
Hi Southpaw. So far, no one has produced enough evidence to substantiate the fact that indeed a HCEO can use force, or to what extent that force can be used. I rather go by what the law says, instead of relying on hearsay.

In my research thus far I did not come across anything to specifically say that, hence my express requests that people contribute with actual links to legislation.

Not to mention that the crux of the matter remains: the Appointed Person on the Notice of eviction should also be the same as the HCEO that will attend the property. The name I was given came up empty, again and again. I can't confirm that he is who he says he is. Would you trust that person coming to your door? I am still amazed that nobody is concerned about that being so.

Today, the so called HCEO replied to my email. Took him a while and he probably had to dig deep and consult someone is their legal department. However, the information he gave me and the links to legislation are not only irrelevant to the case, dealing with collections of fines or inapplicable situation, but the main piece of evidence he relies upon has actually strengthened my case against the use of force. He sent me to look up a precedent dated 1604, Semayne's case, where I came across this brilliant definition of it, by Sir Edward Cooke:

https://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Semayne-v-Gresham1604.htm

'The Semayne case is the origin of the modern phrase: A mans house is his castle and this is borne out of Sir Edward Coke's commentary - The house of everyone is to him is his castle and fortress, as well for his defence against injury and violence as for his repose and if thieves come to a man's house to rob or murder, and the owner or his servants kill any of the thieves in defence of himself and his house, it is no felony and he shall lose nothing. This sets the common law rule that forced entry by a bailiff cannot be made into private homes.'

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: November 01, 2023, 10:17:24 am »
I am getting my information from reputable sources, such as legislation.gov.uk and https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk.

I find it a bit disappointing when people chime in with comments like 'this isn't going to end well', while disregarding the facts and evidence. The problem is not with the writ from the court itself, but with the way it is being enforced and the people who are planning to do that.

As I have stated before, there are serious causes for concern with the person named on the writ, who claims to be someone, yet he isn't.

I think it's best to look at the facts as they stand, rather than start making assumptions and negative comments about how things may or may not end. That is matter to be seen and not speculated about. So let's keep things simple.

The situation is as follows:

1. A letter was found on the pavement on the street by our daughter, addresses to me. It contained a letter entitled Notice of eviction. The way the letter was delivered is a subject in itself, as it appears to have been done very badly and not the way it is prescribed by law. Luckily the wind did not blow it away, or else it would have never been found. But I will let that slide for now, as there are bigger problems to be dealt with.
2. Seeing as we, as parents, are not in the country and there is about a week difference between the eviction date and our return, I contacted the Authorized Person named on the in order to discuss the situation. He answered, claiming to be an HCEO. Upon searching the https://www.hceoa.org.uk, he did not appear as a member. To me, that is a serious cause for concern. I don't know how that looks to you, but to me, he is a liar and an impostor.
3. Seeing that the so called HCEO is not who he claims he is, I then filled an N244 with the court, explaining the situation and asking for a stay of the eviction until our return.
4. I emailed the so called HCEO again and asked for more details about the statements he made in the email he sent me, where he stated that he is not a bailiff, but an HCEO and has the power to force entry and remove any occupiers from the property. I specifically asked him to point out the law where he is getting that information from. I also asked him what kind of force he is planning to use: break the door down? Next, I asked him how he is going to go about removing a 15 year old from a property. By grabbing him and forcing him to go out? Is he even allowed to do that? He did not respond to my last email.
4. The notice is telling me exactly the time and date when the eviction will take place, what will happen on that date and what I can do. The person named as the Authorized Person who is supposed to come to the property is not an HCEO, as he is not on the lists of HCEO's. As such, he is just a person misrepresenting himself as an HCEO. I will deal with that and it's legal implication when I return to London. I don't think anyone in their right mind would let someone who appears to be an impostor come to his house and enter the premises. Hence my instructions to my son to immediately call the Police, should anyone by that name come to the house.

To me, what I have done so far seems to be sensible enough and not something that would lead to an 'it won't end well' kind of situation. I would also appreciate it if people could point out exact references for their statements and not just personal opinions based on preconceived ideas. They are not helpful. We are here to help each other, not sink ships.

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: October 31, 2023, 04:50:17 pm »
Hi again. Sorry about not replying earlier, I was pretty busy dealing with things. Thank you for the input and concern.

I have submitted the N244 today, 31.10.2023, explaining to the judge that the notice has arrived whilst we were away and we need a few more days to return and deal with it in person. I explained that my wife is suffering from and has been diagnosed with clinical mental depression and anxiety and can't deal with things without my supervision. I would have returned on my own, but she can't cope with things on her own, let alone dealing with 2 elderly relatives, hospital visits 60km away to the capital, etc.

I have researched the law online and according to gov.uk, bailiffs cannot force entry to a private property, nor are they allowed to enter when only a minor under 16 is present:

https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-bailiffs

I also emailed the person who is supposed to come, namely Jonathan Chatfield, asking him kindly to consider postponing the visit until we return to London, on the 11.11.2023. He replied saying that the reference sent to him does not apply to high court enforcement officers, only to bailiffs. Yet the reference does not make a distinction between bailiffs, only between county court and high court officers, calling them both 'bailiffs'. And is is quite specific about neither being allowed to force entry, unless we are talking about squatters or commercial premises, criminal fines or HMRC taxes. And even those as a last resort. None of those apply in our case.

What's even more concerning, a search for Jonathan Chatfield on High Court Enforcement Officers Association (HCEOA) came up empty. The guy claims to be an HCEO, yet he is not registered with them? An impersonator, a fraud? Digging a bit deeper and found him here: Marston (Holdings) Limited. Jon headed the London office until October 2020. He then went Equivo LTD, where he is now managing director of the enforcement division. He claims both on Linkedin and Equivo that he is a student member of the HCEO's association. Again, he is not on their database.

I emailed him back, asking him to tell me where exactly I can find evidence for his claim: 'We must point out though that the article you quoted relates to bailiffs who are collecting civil debts and not when enforcing a High Court Writ of Possession.  As High Court Enforcement Officers we may force an entry and have any occupiers removed.'

His statement is both incriminating and problematic for him, as he seems to have tried to intimidate us by misrepresentation of his powers as a HCEO. While he is not even one!?

According to my research and the UK Law, nobody is allowed to enter a premise where a minor under 16 is living. Be they who they may. NOBODY. I would like to see him try, as I have instructed 2 friends to position themselves in front of the property and take video evidence of the proceedings. I also instructed my son to lock the door and not open to anyone, under any circumstances, as advised by a lawyer. He is a strong lad and I would pity anyone trying to break in and try to touch him, as in forcible entry and removal. I hope it won't come down to self defense, we are in the UK aftercall. At the first sign of forced entry, he is to call 999 immediately, while recording the whole time.

Another site that backs my research: https://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/company-insolvency/what-is-a-high-court-enforcement-officer-and-what-rights-do-they-have

What rights do High Court Enforcement Officers have?
Although HCEOs cannot force entry into your home unless you have granted access on a previous occasion, they do have right of entry to your business premises as long as there is no residential element to the building.

You should receive prior warning of an HCEO visit, and they must ensure the premises are properly secured before they leave. High Court Enforcement Officers operate under strict legislation, however, and the national standards for Taking Control of Goods state,

“Enforcement agents must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities …”

This is an important point when enforcement action is being taken. You also need to know your own rights in the situation, and it’s helpful to obtain professional advice in this respect. So which goods and possessions can be taken from your business premises by High Court Enforcement Officers under the Taking Control of Goods Regulations, 2013?

As I have said, I have emailed Jonathan Chatfield and asked the so called HCEO that does not appear to be one to tell me what kind of force is he planning to use when reaching the house. Also, what plan he has in mind when it comes to making good on his 'we will remove anyone living there'. I am eagerly waiting for his reply and will let you know what he has to say.

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: October 26, 2023, 12:10:13 pm »
Hi and thank you for the replies and help. The notice came after a S21 was served. There was a trial and I had to represent myself, since the legal aid did not cover the actual trial, just the preparation of the case preliminary to the trial. I did not have enough time to prepare for the trial, only 6 days. I received the skeleton argument one day before the trial and the trial bundle from the opposing party arrived at the house after the hearing. The judge awarded the case to the opposing party. My legal team was pretty bad and did not identify faults with the S21, which were:

1. No EPC was given when we signed the contract
2. The prescribed information was given to us 3 years after the deposit had been put in the deposit scheme. 

Studying the legalities and learning more about the case myself, I discovered that, but after the trial. As I have said, our legal aid funded paralegal was not worth her salt. I looked at the bundles presented by both our legal team and the landlords and found numerous mistakes that would have thrown the case out had I known about them at the time.

We have tried to talk with the landlord, who owes me some money for materials and  refurbishments done at the property, but he is not being very upfront. The notice of eviction came out of the blue, 3 months after the trial.

The issue is that the notice of eviction came while we had already gone to Europe. It's not as if we have received and decided to go away regardless. I was hoping that it would make sense to have it postponed with the help of the N244 until our return, once the judge understands the situation. The landlord had about 3 months to act, yet he decided to do it now, with no prior communication or warning.

At the moment, there is no actual contract in place, as the last yearly contract signed and agreed upon was back in 2021.

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Non-motoring legal advice / Help re an eviction notice while abroad
« on: October 25, 2023, 03:01:00 pm »
Hello everyone. I have received a 2 weeks notice of eviction from the court, specifying a time and date when the bailiff will come around with a representative of the landlord: 03.112023 at 10AM. The property should be vacated by that point, it says.  The problem I have is that I am away in Europe with my wife, attending to some her mom's health problems. In the property at the moment are our 2 children, 15 yo son and 18 yo daughter. Our return flight is on the 13th of Nov and it seems that my only option is to fill in a N244 and ask the court for a postponement. Has anyone been confronted with a similar situation(very unlikely) or has any helpful advice in the matter? Any help would be much appreciated.

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Hi Cp. Yes, I would like that, thank you very much for your help.

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Hello everyone. I was advised to migrate here from the Pepipoo site, so here I am. Original thread link:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149343

Cp8759 has been kind enough to help me fight this and his support is much appreciated. In short, I was given a camera operator ticket while I stopped and parked the car on the pavement, in front of a store, to get some building supplies on my way to work. The pavement was very wide at that location(roughly about twice the normal width) and I was not obstructing the passage for anyone. I kept an eye out for any unwelcome traffic wardens passing by, but the eagle eye of the camera operator 120 spotted me and zoomed in, to take the reg plate number.
However, the operator must have been too eager to send me the ticket and forgot that it was a Saturday. TfL does not mail out tickets on a Saturday, as it was confirmed in the reply to the FOI sent to them by cp8759. Mail is only picked up Monday to Friday. So by their admission, he committed a procedural impropriety according to this:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/schedule/made

'Paragraph 3 of Schedule 2 to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 provides that:


 'Contents of a regulation 10 penalty charge notice
2. A regulation 10 penalty charge notice, in addition to the matters required to be included in it by regulation 3(4) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, must state—
(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which it is posted'

The notice was issued with Saturday's date on it, while being posted out the on Monday, thus going against the regulations and invalidating the PCN. I think this can mainly help out all of the people that are being issued tickets over the weekend periods, Sat and Sun more specifically.

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