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Messages - zclhe03

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: July 14, 2026, 08:59:38 am »
 :D
I wanted to come back and update everyone, and most importantly to thank you all for your time and advice.

Following the advice on this thread, I obtained the Subject Access Request, which confirmed that the council had relocated the vehicle from Amelia Street to Crampton Street.

I then wrote to the Strategic Director and copied in the Head of Law, enclosing the SAR bundle.

I’ve now received their response. They have accepted that the vehicle was relocated by the council into a Pay by Phone bay, acknowledged that the subsequent PCNs arose following the council’s relocation, agreed to cancel all outstanding PCNs and refund the payment I made for JK17263522.

They have also confirmed they have instructed their parking contractor that vehicles relocated from suspended permit holder bays should, wherever possible, be moved to another permit holder bay so that they remain lawfully parked.

A special thank you to tincombe. Your advice that this had become an extra-procedural matter and that I should write to the Strategic Director and Head of Law proved to be exactly the right approach. I honestly don’t think I’d have reached this outcome otherwise.

Thank you as well to everyone else who took the time to read the documents, ask questions and point me in the right direction. Your expertise and patience were invaluable!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: July 01, 2026, 10:25:49 pm »
Since posting, I've now received an Order for Recovery for JK17309044 (deadline 17 July). I've already written to the Strategic Director and Head of Law enclosing the SAR bundle and asking for a senior review. I've also asked them to place enforcement on hold while they consider it.

Does anyone think I should now pay this Order for Recovery as well to avoid bailiff action, or should I wait for a response to my letter?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 28, 2026, 07:14:34 pm »
Thank you again for all the time you've spent helping me with this.

Based on the advice I've received, I think the appropriate route now is to write to the Strategic Director responsible for Parking Services and copy in the Head of Law, relying on the evidence disclosed in the SAR rather than the parking enforcement process itself.

I've drafted the letter below. Before I send it, I'd be very grateful if anyone could cast an eye over it and let me know if there's anything you would change, add or remove.

Many thanks again.

**For the attention of:**

Aled Richards
Strategic Director, Environment, Sustainability and Leisure

**Copied to:**

Sarah Feasey
Head of Law

**Re: PCNs JK17263522, JK17298185, JK17309044 and JK17310112 – relocation of vehicle by Southwark Council**

Dear Mr Richards,

I write following receipt of Southwark Council's response to my Subject Access Request relating to the above Penalty Charge Notices.

Having now reviewed the material supplied by the Council, it is clear that the factual basis on which these PCNs were issued is fundamentally different from that previously understood.

The Council's own records confirm that:

* my vehicle was lawfully parked in a residents' permit bay on Amelia Street;
* a filming suspension was subsequently introduced on 25 September 2025;
* Council officers attended and photographed the vehicle in the suspended bay;
* the vehicle was then relocated by the Council from Amelia Street; and
* following that relocation, the vehicle was left in a Pay by Phone bay on Crampton Street, where the subsequent PCNs were issued.

These are not matters of recollection or assumption. They are demonstrated by the Council's own suspension records and photographs disclosed under the Subject Access Request.

At no stage was the vehicle under my control when it was relocated. The Council made the decision as to where the vehicle should be placed.

Had I personally parked the vehicle in a Pay by Phone bay and left it there without payment, I would understand why enforcement action followed. However, that is not what occurred.

Instead, the Council chose to relocate a residents' permit holder's vehicle into a location where it immediately became liable to enforcement. The subsequent penalties arose solely because of the location selected by the Council.

I fully acknowledge that my handling of the later enforcement process was less than ideal. In particular, I did not pursue an appeal following the Notice of Rejection relating to PCN JK17263522, and I have now paid that PCN in order to avoid further enforcement action and the substantial additional costs associated with the Order for Recovery process.

However, payment was made solely to prevent further enforcement and should not be taken as an admission that the underlying liability was properly incurred.

The Council's own evidence now demonstrates that the sequence of events began with the Council relocating my vehicle. In those circumstances, I ask the Council to consider whether it is fair or lawful for penalties to have arisen as a direct consequence of that relocation.

I therefore request that the Council:

1. Immediately cease enforcement of any outstanding PCNs arising from the relocation.
2. Cancel any outstanding penalties associated with the vehicle following its relocation to Crampton Street.
3. Refund the payment made in respect of PCN JK17263522.
4. Explain why the vehicle was relocated to a Pay by Phone bay rather than to an equivalent residents' permit bay or another lawful location.

I hope the Council will now review this matter in light of its own records and resolve it without the need for a formal complaint to the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman or any further escalation.

I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,


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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 28, 2026, 06:48:51 pm »
The PCN I paid was JK17263522 following the Order for Recovery. I don't believe I ever paid an Amelia Street PCN because I have never been sent one. All the PCNs I've seen relate to Crampton Street.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 26, 2026, 02:58:45 pm »

I've now received the Subject Access Request from Southwark and uploaded the pdf here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-SttE0Y1WA0TXkQMFLixFNZY5rpcBJ43/view?usp=sharing

The SAR confirms there was a filming suspension on Amelia Street on 25 September 2025. More importantly, it contains Southwark's own photographs showing my vehicle in the suspended residents' bay, the suspension notices on the vehicle, the council removal truck alongside it, and then photographs showing the vehicle after it had been relocated to Crampton Street.

From what I can see, the council relocated the vehicle from a residents' permit bay on Amelia Street into a Pay by Phone bay on Crampton Street. The subsequent PCNs were then issued while the vehicle remained in that Pay by Phone bay.

The council have also confirmed there were no additional notes relating to my vehicle, but the SAR does include the suspension records and the photographs documenting the relocation.

I'd really appreciate your thoughts on where this leaves me. In particular:

* Does this change the position now that the relocation appears to be evidenced by the council's own records?
* If the council relocated the vehicle into a Pay by Phone bay, should the subsequent PCNs have been issued at all?
* Is this now something I should pursue through Southwark's complaints process and seek reimbursement for the PCN I've paid, or is there another route I should be considering?

Many thanks again for all your help.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 21, 2026, 11:58:20 am »
Thank you all for your help and for taking the time to look at this. I really appreciate the input as I'm frankly out of my depth on this!

Following the advice received, I have now paid PCN JK17263522 in order to avoid further enforcement action and associated costs. However, I have made it clear to Southwark that payment is not an admission of liability and that I am continuing to seek the relocation records.

I have requested from Southwark:

* TRACE records
* relocation logs
* CEO notes
* photographs
* records showing the reason for the relocation
* any suspension, roadworks or filming records relating to Amelia Street

Southwark have advised that these requests may take up to a month.

I am also seeking confirmation of the current status of JK17309044 and JK17310112, as I have Notices to Owner and Charge Certificates for those PCNs but do not currently have a complete picture of what happened to them.

Once I receive the relocation records and Southwark's response, I will update the thread.

Thank you again for taking the time to get involved and help me work through what has been a very confusing situation.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 20, 2026, 03:10:16 pm »
Further to my previous post, I can clarify the timeline regarding when the vehicle was reported missing.

At the time we lived in a block of flats and did not have a dedicated parking space. We parked using a residents' parking permit.

The vehicle was last parked by us on Amelia Street on 12 September 2025 and was not used daily.

At some point afterwards I saw the vehicle in Crampton Street with a PCN attached. Because there had been a short period during which the residents' permit had not been renewed, I assumed the PCN related to that issue, collected the ticket and paid it.

I also assumed either that I had simply misremembered where the vehicle had been parked or that my husband had moved it. As a result, I did not appreciate at that stage that there might have been an issue regarding the vehicle's location.

It was only when we went to use the vehicle on 11 October 2025 that we discovered it was no longer there and reported it to the Metropolitan Police.

I appreciate this may not have been clear from my earlier posts.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 19, 2026, 12:46:21 pm »
Just to clarify, I have already submitted requests to Southwark for:

* TRACE records
* vehicle relocation records and logs
* CEO notes
* photographs
* records showing the reason for the relocation
* any suspension, roadworks or filming records relating to Amelia Street

Southwark have advised that these requests may take up to a month to process, which unfortunately means I am unlikely to receive the records before the Order for Recovery deadline on June 21st.

The reason I have not yet been able to explain why the vehicle was moved is that I simply do not know. The only evidence currently available to me is the Metropolitan Police report recording that a TRACE check showed the vehicle as having been removed from Amelia Street as a street-to-street move.

Assuming those records do not arrive before the Order for Recovery deadline, what would members do in my position?

Would you pay to avoid enforcement fees and continue pursuing the relocation evidence afterwards, or take a different approach?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 17, 2026, 01:53:43 pm »
Thanks for the responses. I've now gathered together all of the paperwork and can hopefully clarify the position.

The vehicle was parked on Amelia Street. According to the Metropolitan Police report, a TRACE check later showed the vehicle had been moved from Amelia Street as a street-to-street move on 25/09/2025. The vehicle was subsequently reported stolen on 11/10/2025.

I think some confusion has arisen because my original representation was poorly expressed. I referred to having a resident parking permit, but I was not arguing that a resident permit was valid in a pay-by-phone bay.

The point I was trying to make was that the vehicle had originally been parked lawfully on Amelia Street and was later no longer where it had been left. The permit was simply background information, not the basis of the challenge.

A further complication is that multiple PCNs were issued after the vehicle appeared on Crampton Street:

* JK17263522 – 02/10/2025
* JK17309044 – 06/10/2025
* JK17298185 – 07/10/2025

All three relate to the same alleged contravention (11u) at the same location.

Southwark later cancelled JK17298185 because it had been issued within 24 hours of JK17309044.

For JK17263522, I received:

* Notice to Owner dated 06/11/2025
* Notice of Rejection dated 18/12/2025
* Charge Certificate dated 20/02/2026
* Order for Recovery received June 2026

I accept that I received the Notice of Rejection and did not appeal to London Tribunals. At the time I believed the matter was still being investigated because I was trying to obtain evidence regarding the vehicle's movement and theft report. The police report was only provided to me in April 2026.

I have attached in link here: https://postimg.cc/gallery/Hk8G090

1. Notice to Owner – JK17263522
2. My representations
3. Notice of Rejection
4. Charge Certificate
5. Order for Recovery
6. Police report / TRACE evidence
7. Cancellation letter for JK17298185

My main question is:

Given that I received the Notice of Rejection for JK17263522 but did not appeal to London Tribunals, is there now any procedural route available in respect of the Order for Recovery, or am I entirely dependent on Southwark exercising discretion after seeing the TRACE/police evidence?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Southwark PCN – Order for Recovery received – police report later revealed TRACE relocation
« on: June 14, 2026, 10:59:27 pm »
Vehicle: GJ69XKY

PCNs:

JK17263522 – alleged contravention on 02/10/2025 (Crampton Street)
JK17298185 – alleged contravention on 07/10/2025 (Crampton Street)

Timeline:

Vehicle was parked on Amelia Street.
02/10/2025 – PCN JK17263522 issued.
07/10/2025 – PCN JK17298185 issued.
11/10/2025 – Vehicle reported stolen to the Metropolitan Police.
21/11/2025 – Representations submitted against JK17263522.
18/12/2025 – Notice of Rejection issued for JK17263522.
No appeal lodged with London Tribunals.
Charge Certificate later issued for JK17298185.
June 2026 – Order for Recovery received for JK17263522 (£175, deadline 21/06/2026).

The key issue is that in April 2026 I obtained a Metropolitan Police report relating to the theft report.

The report contains the following entry:

"TRACE check shows as removed from Amelia Street as a street to street move on 25/09/25."

The report also records that the vehicle was later seen in Crampton Street.

Our position has always been that the vehicle was originally parked on Amelia Street and was not left by us in Crampton Street.

At the time representations were made and at the time the tribunal appeal period expired, we did not have the police report or the TRACE information. We only obtained that report in April 2026, several months after the appeal period had expired.

For context, during this period my husband was working as an NHS doctor and we had a newborn baby at home. While I appreciate that this does not excuse missing deadlines, it does explain why the matter was not pursued as actively as it should have been at the time.

I have now requested from Southwark:

Vehicle relocation records
TRACE records
CEO notes
Relocation logs
Photographs

I am not looking to make any inaccurate witness statement. The Notice of Rejection for JK17263522 was received by email, so I do not believe I can honestly rely on a TE9 ground based on non-receipt.

My questions are:

Is there any procedural route available in respect of JK17263522 now that an Order for Recovery has been issued?
Does the later discovery of the police report and TRACE relocation information change anything procedurally?
Is there any argument that the second PCN (JK17298185) was not properly considered, given that subsequent correspondence referred to both PCNs but Southwark stated that only JK17263522 had been challenged?
Am I now entirely reliant on Southwark exercising discretion, or is there any other route available?

I can upload the Order for Recovery, Notice of Rejection, correspondence and relevant page of the police report if helpful.

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