Show Posts - Littlepig

I suppose she works within the law, and the law doesn't say that such a sign is required... I was surprised, to say the least.

V shocked by this, but grateful to @cp8759 for all his help nevertheless. The adjudicator works within the law, so this just means I need to campaign to get the law changed so that signage is clearer for drivers. The adjudicator made a suggestion how to improve the signage herself and my MP told me that the new gvt document picks up on this so there is a bit of a springboard to go off.This forum and those willing to help others is hugely valuable so thank you all again.

Thank you for your kind offer. I am keen to pursue this as the fact they have made it more difficult for people to spot a) where the lane starts and b) where to turn off to avoid the bus lane makes me think this is a cash cow, which infuriates me. Although if everything they have done is legal, they are just b*st*rds who are operating within the law.I am awaiting the video footage.I had no idea you guys even existed until I ask on Moneysavingexpert - do you think I have a chance?

Thanks for your reply.I put up the wording of my appeal in the original post (in italics), and the two pages of the council's "sod off" response. I only put up the first page of the PCN as that's what the other forum said I needed; here is the second one. I haven't asked for the video yet but will do so today. 2023_11_22_10_22_49_Page_2 by emma bakewell, on FlickrHere is the third page from the appeal refusal:2023_11_22_10_24_39_Page_3_Image_0001 by emma bakewell, on FlickrAnnoyingly I can't now edit the original posts so I can't take out my photos. If a mod wants to do it for me then that would be great as I appreciate you have limited bandwith.Thank you again very much for your help.

I have managed to sort Flickr I think which hopefully should help.Any advice would be gratefully received.Thank you.

Brilliant work! well done!

Here is an appeal which won a few months backhttps://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/cheltenham-news/fine-quashed-after-bus-lane-8223581?fbclid=IwAR1zmTp89DfaxwWsU5szq3FItRUiW81IAkxb2-w-mmn7sNMnTGSdHHPG-yE

This is the signage which was in plac in 2018 - now removed! [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Photos of the current signage in place. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

(Also posted on the old forum)There's a notorious bus lane in our town. I've seen a large amount of drivers complaining on Facebook about getting tickets by inadvertently driving in this lane. I didn't really know where it was as I rarely drive down that end of town, but last week I myself made that mistake and have now been issued with a PCN. I got quite a shock when I realised I was suddenly "in" the lane. There is no way to exit the the lane and I had to turn in a car park further down.I am told I can pay £35 now, or I can appeal - and if my appeal fails I have to pay £70.The infuriating thing is that the bus lane used to be well marked with a large blue sign and colour on the road - and all this has been done away with. There isn't even any hatching on the road surface anymore. I have done an FOI request asking how much in fines the council has received before and after they changed the road markings. £35 is something I will sorely miss, £70 is a horrendous amount which i would have to pay on credit, but I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I have employment and no dependents; many people are not so lucky.The text below was sent in my initial appeal to the council. They declined this as they said there is sufficient signage and the "no entry" sign on the right of the road actually refers to the bus lane on the left (?). There clearly isn't sufficient signage, as so many drivers get caught here! Nobody deliberately chooses to drive in a bus lane!Below is the appeal I raised with the council. I would be grateful if anyone with any experience would take a look and suggest any changes if you don't mind? I know several people have won similar cases with this particular bus lane. I've also raised it with my MP.I have driven in X for some years but rarely on this road and always turn right out of Iceland car park when I do. I decided to try a different route and saw the "two way traffic" sign when I came out of this car park, so thought I could do so; there was nothing on this sign to warn of a bus lane coming up (such as Diagram 962 from the Traffic Signs Manual Chap 3 fig 9-10).A sign further along the road does indeed say 'bus lane' and indicates that traffic should turn right - but this is opposite a 'no entry' sign on the right hand side, so conveys that the right hand turn for all traffic is further up. The photographs attached by the council to this very PCN show this all too clearly! In accordance with TSRGD Figure 9‑6 Diagram 1050 (S9‑6‑12) the obligatory right turn should be clearly denoted on the road. This is not the case.TSM Chap 3 1.7.1. notes "It is important that upright signs giving effect to TROs, and intended to be read from a moving vehicle, are of sufficient size to enable drivers to recognise them and assimilate the information in time". The white sign is not in itself warning enough. TSM describes “ A further category of regulatory sign [is] rectangular with a blue background to indicate a bus, cycle or other lane restricted to particular vehicle type” (1.6.2) which is used in other bus lanes in Cheltenham and is much clearer to drivers from earlier on in the road.This is especially confusing given that the paint on the road marking the bus lane (present in 2018, as evidenced in the photograph attached) has been removed so there are no warnings or markings on the road itself until you are physically on it. In the Traffic Signs Manual 2019 9.1.5.  It is stated "Bus lanes and bus gates may be surfaced in coloured material in order to demarcate them more emphatically and to discourage encroachment by motor vehicles." Why would the council deliberately reduce demarcation and emphasis of a bus lane? It should be noted that TSM 1.13.2.  states “Road markings serve a very important function in conveying to road users information and requirements, supplementing upright signs and… providing a continuing message”.To make matters worse, signage depicting two-way traffic is still showing on the road, even on the bus lane. TSM chap 3 4.10.1 states: "Superfluous signing is not only unnecessary, it is unsightly and can distract or confuse drivers on the opposite carriageway" which is exactly what is happening on this road, as the numerous PCNs issued are testament to. In accordance with TSRGD Figure 9‑6 Diagram 1050 (S9‑6‑12) the obligatory right turn should be clearly denoted on the road. This is not the case.I contest this PCN on the basis that the signage is insufficient, confusing and not in accordance with regulation.I have put photos on Flickr and tried to add them here but it keeps saying I have an invalid extension and I don't know how to correct it. So I will remove them as soon as they're not needed. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]