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Messages - greentowel

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Stopping the video at 1:27, you are right that I could have easily taken the left lane, the same can be said at 1:25, when I enter the box. At that point however I think I was not aware that the bus was going to come to a full stop, the traffic lights on the right-hand side of the road where behind the bus and the left-hand side ones had not come into my view yet. At that point all three vehicles are also moving. The bus stops at 1:29, from 1:29 to 1:32 you can see me trying to make it to the gap left by the bus, at 1:32 I stop. The mopped had already stopped at 1:30, though, and at 1:33 it starts moving again, undertaking me.

I don't know whether it matters, but if I made representations saying I stopped because of the mopped, can't they easily then say why didn't I move after the mopped undertook me?, from 1:37 to 1:43 in the video.

The combination of me not being aware the bus was going to stop and the mopped being so close behind me and so close to the left side of the road, as if going to undertake me, meant I took a wider than necessary turn to the left. Then the bus stopped and given that I had taken a wide turn I was positioned in such a way that, at the time, I didn't think I could get to the gap without hitting the bus or reversing, the video shows that maybe I could have gone through without reversing, but that is not that clear to me. I did consider reversing, but I thought that was more dangerous than just staying put (and more likely to lead to a PCN oddly enough).

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Thank you for the detailed response and draft MrChips, that is very helpful.

The car is a VW Golf, the width without mirrors is 1.79 meters and with mirrors, 2.02m, so 1.905m counting just one of the mirrors.

I will send the representation and will update with TfL's response.

Thank you!

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Thank you both.

I was trying to go to the left most lane, not the lane where the bus stop. I indeed had to stop because of the bus, and I could have manoeuvre to get into my lane, but it would have required me going on reverse. It felt safer at the time to just wait for the traffic light to change rather than reversing, particularly as I had no visibility over the road I had just come from.

Would you mention anything about the bus invading the left most lane, the size of the box or the roadworks?

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Hi all,

Coming from pepipoo.com where a moderator suggested I posted here (original post on pepipoo.com: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=152030)

First time poster, apologies in advance if I do something wrong!

I am gutted as I recently received a penalty charge notice issued by TfL for stopping at a box junction. This is in the intersection between Great West Road and Windmill Road, where there is currently roadworks.

You can see the links to the PCN, pictures and video below. I am the black car behind the bus.

I was waiting on the traffic lights on Windmill Road behind a bus to turn left (which is the only thing you can do given the roadworks), it was only the bus in front of me at the traffic lights and normally there are 3 lanes available to turn left (one of them was blocked because of the roadworks, which I didn't know), so I was pretty certain I would be able to get out of the box junction when I entered, however the bus stopped at the traffic lights just after the junction blocking my lane and leaving me in the box. The bus appeared to be doing a wide turn, so I didn't think I needed to have a particularly close turn, but then closed at the last minute and stopped invading the lane I was going for. I did not have enough clearance between myself and the bus to make it through the gap between the kerb and the bus (where my car would have fit), you can see me trying to get to it on the video but had I continued I would have hit the bus, essentially I would have had to reverse in the box junction to be able to turn enough to make it through. Had the bus not invaded my lane I would have been able to get out of the box with no issue.

Do I have any grounds to appeal this?

A couple other points I can think of is that the box seems to extend way beyond the junction, and had the box been just the size of the junction maybe I would not have ended up stopping on it. Also, with the roadworks, this is not a junction anymore and the only way to exit is the direction I was going towards, so I could not have prevented incoming traffic for going through, but I am not sure whether that matters.

There is also a lot of irony that a TfL bus made me get a TfL issued PCN.

Even though more than 14 days have passed from the day of the notice, because I had to wait for the DVD with the video to arrive, I am still on the discount period, the DVD arrive on the 9th of November, but the letter is is dated 6th of November, I am unsure when the discount period will end.

Thank you very much for any help, I really appreciate it!

PCN:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tSZ39FbkEEJ1ebLWm4fkB5eOOZZ763Ry/

Pictures
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jLqRCXWYUKf9PCXJJ0_7Hfno4bVgYdBp/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uUS4pSlPWYlSlhuNMKM-1mZd0maFRaRQ/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oxv8euViVZBg53-dvDyqxfG4CmGGrR2P/

Video
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uhQRzWMWDdBdolhyF2SUlrtYy1bpPikl/

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