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Messages - Verdomde

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1
The authorities reason for not contesting the appeal are

"Parking Attendant used an old printer roll and unhappy with quality of responses to informal and formal appeal."

I guess the first is an excuse for the mismatched amounts on the front and back of the PCN, and the last is them saying they are just being nice as I was unhappy at my previous appeals not being accepted?

At any rate it's a win, quick and easy and I am happy

Thanks to all on here for all your help

Pains me to think they won't change the signage though and more people will fall prey to them :/

2
Wowsa,

I sent this as my appeal at 11:00 today (and a copy of the PCN)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dsbzaaq4te5bb8oijgtfa/PK65201252.docx?rlkey=2b7zc0m1nhkea5b9zo1ngrk5v&dl=0

and got an email stating this at 14:00

The authority has decided not to contest your appeal. This means that you have won your appeal and the case is closed.

Can I have more information on why the authority has made this decision?
Yes, you can view the reasons why the authority is not contesting this appeal in your online case file:

https://foam.transportappeals.scot/case_files/#/show/6000/decisions/decisions

If the text above does not appear as a link, please copy and paste it into your web browser to view.

Do I need to do anything now?
No, you have nothing to pay and need take no further action.

Am I eligible for costs?
Costs are not usually awarded; however, there may be exceptions if the adjudicator finds that the authority’s decision to reject the initial representation was unreasonable.

For further details on the Costs process, please email transportappeals@scotcourtstribunals.gov.uk



That's a turn up for the books, so fast- I assume they just roll over most of the time without checking the validity of the appeal? As I feel my document wasn't exactly proffesional  :D

I will see if the case notes say more and revert

4
A bit stuck on this bit


Please select the ground(s) of appeal that are relevant to your case. You will need to check the Notice of Rejection issued by the local authority to determine whether the alleged parking contravention relates to a Pavement Parking, Double Parking or Dropped Footway Prohibition as not all of the grounds of appeal listed below apply to that type of contravention. If you are unsure, please tick the last box.

You can select multiple grounds of appeal.

Should I pick
The alleged contravention did not occur (all parking appeals).
For example: The signs and lines were wrong, the penalty was not served, the alleged events did not happen, the vehicle was entitled to park, loading or unloading was taking place, a passenger was boarding or alighting, a valid disabled badge was displayed or a valid pay and display ticket was displayed.

Or


The Traffic Regulation Order was invalid (does not apply to Pavement Parking, Double Parking or Dropped Footway Prohibition appeals).
TROs are bylaws – created by councils – which specify parking restrictions and the conditions under which vehicles may park.

Or Both, guessing just the first one..

5
And there was this at the end [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

6
The header is attached [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

7
OP, why do you post beheaded docs?

The CC omits its date! Pl repost so that all 4 sides are visible, this way we know that everything which needs to be displayed is displayed.

If, as I suspect, this is simply a case of your letter being delivered a little later than the last permitted date (actual delivery being irrelevant in law, it's the presumed date which counts) then you just need to bring this to the council's attention - their website even has a chat link. You would not be arguing the toss about your reps, simply that the CC was premature. In reality, any council which simply times its processes with a hair trigger at this time of year is foolish. The legal reality is that they had no power to issue the CC if your reps were posted* on 1 Dec.

*- posted doesn't mean posting at 10.30pm on 1st in a post box whose next collection was Mon. 2pm, it means posting so that it entered the mail service no later than Sat.

While you're reposting, pl confirm that the postal address used was the one in the NTO.

What is a CC? I'll look back and see if I can work that out, and repost for you if I find it. It kind of sounds from context like its the demand for £150, that's been dismissed it seems as the latest request was for £100

The letters seem to have gotten through and been looked at (though dismissed it seems)

The chat link on the website doesn't work, I complained to them about that in my first letter too.

Time, I think has answered most of your queries, as they did get back to me.. Sorry about the delay in response- dont know why I didn't get an email, Notify of replies is checked by default, maybe it went to spam or something. But I appreciate your help



8
Hi, thanks for the responses, I didn't get emailed about them, sorry- I will try sort that (i guess there's a button here somewhere)

Got a response back from the Parking support team

Date 11/01/2024

Dear Mr  ,
Notice of Rejection of Representations
Road Traffic Act 1991 (As Amended)
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) number: PK65201252
Date of contravention: 17/08/2023
Location: Canal Street Multi Storey Car Park
Vehicle registration: 
Thank you for writing to us.
We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel your
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
You were given a PCN for parking in an area reserved for Council Vehicles only.
The enclosed photos help to show why your PCN was given.
You have 28 days from the date of this letter being served to:
 pay £100.00; or
 appeal to the Parking Adjudicator. You can do this online using the details provided
below. The Adjudicator can ask one side to pay costs if he or she believes, for
example, that they have been wholly unreasonable. However, the Adjudicator
rarely asks either side to pay costs. The Adjudicator is independent and both sides
must accept the Adjudicator's decision.
If you do nothing
If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we may send you a Charge Certificate
increasing the charge from £100.00 to £150.00. You will then have 14 days to pay the
increased charge. If, after the 14 days, you have not paid the increased charge, we may
use sheriff officers to recover the money from you. You will have to pay their costs too.
Delayed Office Opening
for Employee Training
This office will be closed from
8.45am - 11.00am on the first
Thursday of each month.

Communities

Executive Director (Communities) Barbara Renton

How to pay:
online at www.pkc.gov.uk/parkinggateway and click 'Pay online'.
by phone 0345 603 0121
by post Please make your cheque payable to ‘Perth & Kinross Council’, write your
Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: Parking Services,
Perth & Kinross Council, Pullar House, 35 Kinnoull Street, PERTH PH1 5GD.
Yours sincerely
Parking Support Team

9
This is what I sent, will look out the digital copy as I get time (am at work so can't spend much time on this at the moment)

I guess I gave the date I received the letter or something :/ I'll try and find that nto too

And yes, Friday the 1st


I don't really know what to do, so am just sending this

Hello

My car was parked there while for a visit in Perth and had some food in a Cafe. There was a PCN on the window upon return.

It seems the area in question is supposed to be for council vehicles only, but it is not marked as such anywhere in or around the parking bays:
 
{pictures}
Clearly there is no appropriate signage, it is only on hunting around that it can eventually be found that there are white on white signs hidden in the rafters- from the perspective of a driver:
 
 {pictures}

It is not acceptable to expect motorists to see such scant signage.
to highlight, here is a section from the BPA Code of Practice
You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm

These signs are inconspicuous and camouflaged. As are the laminated sheets of paper, also out of view above the eye-line of motorists who are navigating narrow and potentially dangerous turns and ramps. The below was taken when standing to get an angle where the laminates are even visible, you can imagine how hidden they are when in a car!
 {pictures}
 
 The state of the signage around these bays needs to be reviewed seriously- there should be signs at each parking bay, or at the very least between each charger, and conspicuous prominent signage in plain view in the eyeline of motorists. The signs should not only stipulate that an area is for council use, but that there may be penalties for others using it. There should also be clear indication of which area the signs pertain to, is it just the bays below the signs, the front part of the area? It is unclear. This is another reason why signage should be visible to people when parking, close to vehicles, and close to chargers.
In the next images you can see more evidence that there is no signage to indicate the bay should not be used:
{pictures}
The a4 laminate that is supposed to pass for a sign is at least 4 bays away from the vehicle, high up in the rafters, and hidden from view to cars coming down the ramp by the other rafters and the angle at which you are driving.

 
 It should be noted that any other images considered when reviewing the signage should be looked at with discretion, a driver is lower than someone with a camera held high, and a camera with a flash on will make the signs appear almost visible from that perspective. Remember it is drivers who will be expected to notice signage…

10
I have the document saved (I believe)

I mailed it (there's no digital submission option) 1st class.

12
I got a letter through at the weekend saying the charge was increase to £150

13
Hi, I guess reps is the appeal, I got stressed about how long i had, so sent on Friday

14
Tusker got back to me (i asked them to re-send)
the contents of the authorisation was this



Parking Services Perth
and Kinross Council
35 Kinnoull Street
Perth
PH1 5GD
31/10/2023
To whom it may concern
THIRD PARTY AUTHORISATION LETTER
Please accept this letter as confirmation that Tusker authorise you to communicate directly with the nominated person
detailed below in relation to the Penalty Charge Notice they have received:
Vehicle Registration: RJ23FFX
Reference: PK65201252
Make/Model: 
Contract Start Date:
Contract End Date:
Customer Name:
Customer Address: 
 
The above vehicle is on long term lease with Tusker and the nominated person above has full use of the vehicle.
Kind Regards,
Contract Administration Supervisor
 



15
I don't really know what to do, so am just sending this

Hello

My car was parked there while for a visit in Perth and had some food in a Cafe. There was a PCN on the window upon return.

It seems the area in question is supposed to be for council vehicles only, but it is not marked as such anywhere in or around the parking bays:
 
{pictures}
Clearly there is no appropriate signage, it is only on hunting around that it can eventually be found that there are white on white signs hidden in the rafters- from the perspective of a driver:
 
 {pictures}

It is not acceptable to expect motorists to see such scant signage.
to highlight, here is a section from the BPA Code of Practice
You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm

These signs are inconspicuous and camouflaged. As are the laminated sheets of paper, also out of view above the eye-line of motorists who are navigating narrow and potentially dangerous turns and ramps. The below was taken when standing to get an angle where the laminates are even visible, you can imagine how hidden they are when in a car!
 {pictures}
 
 The state of the signage around these bays needs to be reviewed seriously- there should be signs at each parking bay, or at the very least between each charger, and conspicuous prominent signage in plain view in the eyeline of motorists. The signs should not only stipulate that an area is for council use, but that there may be penalties for others using it. There should also be clear indication of which area the signs pertain to, is it just the bays below the signs, the front part of the area? It is unclear. This is another reason why signage should be visible to people when parking, close to vehicles, and close to chargers.
In the next images you can see more evidence that there is no signage to indicate the bay should not be used:
{pictures}
The a4 laminate that is supposed to pass for a sign is at least 4 bays away from the vehicle, high up in the rafters, and hidden from view to cars coming down the ramp by the other rafters and the angle at which you are driving.

 
 It should be noted that any other images considered when reviewing the signage should be looked at with discretion, a driver is lower than someone with a camera held high, and a camera with a flash on will make the signs appear almost visible from that perspective. Remember it is drivers who will be expected to notice signage…

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