Free Traffic Legal Advice

surely if 'some forces do' include speed info with the photos then it has not been omitted due to data protection legislation, which should be the same across England?

Each police force is its own organisation with its own leadership team, information management team and legal advice. With this comes different interpretations, risk appetites and priorities. Very little in policing is consistent! Some information management specialists will say ‘we don’t know if putting the speed in could be a breach so it’s best not to put it’ others will say ‘we have nothing that says putting the speed in is a breach. If we learn it is then we’ll revisit it’.

There are numerous commercial systems available to police to detect speeding and process the evidence. Even where several forces use the same solutions they will be implemented differently and teams dealing with the post offence casework will follow different procedures.

What I’m saying is that one force may have truly considered what the bare minimum they should provide to comply with the traffic law while minimising demand on their ticket unit from ‘customers’ asking for photos and at the same time not providing personal data up front. Another force may not have even considered this or their risk appetite is different.

It could also be technical, one force’s solution crops the speed automatically or doesn’t put it in a mail merge, another force’s might not etc.

In any case it doesn’t matter. They don’t even have to provide the photos at this stage to you let alone the speed. If one force gives this info it doesn’t mean a force who does not is issuing invalid process. Even if the forces giving this info are breaking some kind of data protection law, it wouldn’t invalidate any speeding fines unless there was some argument for exclusion of evidence that could be made based on the force being so incompetent that no trust can be placed in their processes.

If you were that curious you could put an FoIA request in to ask for emails, meeting notes and copies of policy & procedures to understand the rationale for the decisions made. However I suspect you may not be interested by time you’ve finished reading this reply 🤣

Well, the first thing to say is that you should not pay the Charge Certificate.

TfL cannot do anything to collect the £270 until they have registered the debt at TEC and sent you an Order for Recovery. As soon as they do this, you can submit a Witness Statement that you submitted representations but received no response. The process will then be reset by TEC back to the reps stage, and as you have submitted reps, the matter must be passed by TfL to London Tribunals who will decide what do. The amount "in play" reverts to the PCN penalty.

Thank you for your advice.

I can see the clock is currently stopped at the moment while they consider my reason for entering late representations. I understand they do not have to accept late representations but I’m guessing they must at least consider them under the principles of due process before continuing to escalate.

Presumably I will now get either a notice saying ‘we don’t accept your reason for late representations’ and the Charge Certificate clock starts again. I have to wait for TEC registration and do a witness statement.

Or they say ‘we do accept your reason for late representations and now we will consider your representations’ to which they either accept them or reject those representations.

Accepting my representations would mean either nothing owed or reduced rate of £90.

Rejecting them would mean I just have to pay the £180 immediately?

Hi


First thing to say - I found this forum after making representations to TfL so am now just looking to understand what happens next.


In November I drove to an event on the outskirts of London. I took a detour into the ULEZ. I forgot to pay (tried two days later but obviously too late). Predictably, PCN is issued six days later. Foolishly I didn’t see the letter on the kitchen table so missed the opportunity to pay the reduced fee.


I made representations via TfL’s website 26 days after the date of service. I apologised and uploaded evidence to confirm the event I was attending and a letter confirming a medical diagnosis that adds some context to what I said. The best I was hoping for was that they would let me pay the £90.


I did not receive a confirmation email. I was unable to submit a further set of representations on the website (this time just receiving a blank page). I reached out via TfL’s general enquiry page to explain the situation.


A week later (34 days after PCN service) I can now see they linked my enquiry to the PCN saying it was suspended. I never heard anything from them by phone, email or post. There is then a further date 55 days after PCN service but not outcome.


Now I have received a Charge Certificate issued 72 days after PCN service (last week).


I have made further ‘late representations’ - basically explaining the above, that being summarised as ‘I already made representations and you never communicated the outcome to me’ (I had understood that if they refused my representations then I’d still get some time to pay the PCN which I would have). I then repeated my original representations in the next set of boxes. I included screenshots showing the partial blank page and the confirmation of my TfL enquiry made at the time.


This time I have definitely checked it has gone through and is showing on my PCN reference.


I am assuming my original representations didn’t go through ‘fully’ but my PCN was left in some kind of broken state where I couldn’t do it again. I’m guessing something happened at day 34 when they linked my enquiry to my PCN (maybe they fixed the issue but never told me?) and then again at day 55 (perhaps that was my deadline to do whatever they didn’t tell me to do?)


My question is what now? I have no idea if my original representations will be successful but figured it was worth a try. If they accept there was a technical issue and I acted in good faith but don’t accept my representations will they allow me to pay the PCN or even better the reduced rate? Or is the £270 now the minimum I’m on the hook for? Since my original representations were very much asking for a once-off application of discretion rather than representing a legal defence, is there now any mechanism to lowering the amount I’ll need to pay if they either don’t accept my reason for being ‘late’ (in their eyes)?

Edit - I’ll add my understanding. My original reason for making representations was not under one of the six grounds but under ‘ Mitigation and discretion’ and I had hoped they would find the reason for failure to pay on time as ‘mitigating circumstances’. If the didn’t I was prepared to pay the PCN.

If I understand it right, they now must consider if my representations were made in time. Going against me is the fact I can now see no entry from day 26 on the portal showing they received it. Going for me is the fact that I immediately sent them a general enquiry (which was subsequently linked to my PCN), I also have dated screenshots on my phone showing the half loaded page and my general enquiry submission (I may even have put the first screenshot in the general enquiry), I even have a dated note with my representations typed on my phone notes.

If they consider my representations to have been made in time or accept my reason for not ‘properly’ making them, they will then consider them and send me a decision notice, rejection means I’ll pay £180 (unless they really use their discretion considering I made them at day 26!)

If they do not accept my late representation I assume I either pay £270 or wait for it to go to the TEC where I’d do a witness statement under the grounds of “You made a representation to us but did not receive a reply within 28 days (rejection notice)”. If my witness statement is accepted then it gets sent to the independent adjudicator?