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thank you @Incandescent I doubt if the pcn is going to tell you anything that the person who posted the other thread didn't say.Point(s) taken - actually I find 20mph is very difficult to maintain and no, I wasn't following satnav instructions. My understanding was that 20mph zones were implemented primarily for road safety, as part of the Mayor's "Vision Zero" strategy to eliminate all deaths and serious injuries on London's roads by 2041. So, that's my point, I was making sure that I wasn't a danger to pedestrians. Perhaps I'll make it clearer in the representations.Yes, I realise it's a slim chance.QuoteThe Council of the London Borough of Ealing believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle registration mark AB99CDE for the alleged traffic contravention of 50JR - Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn) In Whitton Avenue West / Malden Avenue Greenford (U) On DATETIMEThe alleged contravention was recorded from a road side camera at the time stated. The alleged contravention is supported by recorded video footage. A penalty charge of £160.00 is payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this Notice. If the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this Notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by £80.00. Please see overleaf for details of how to pay. The person on whom this Notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities & Transport for London Act 2003 using the form overleaf. The grounds on which you may make representations are set out in the form. If you fail to pay the penalty charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice, an increased charge of £240.00 may be payable. We may send you a Charge Certificate seeking payment of this increased amount. We may disregard any representations received after the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

OK, I've drafted an appeal, I will appeal both separatelyRe: PCNs AO—-- and [AO—---]Vehicle registration: —-----Date/time: 19/01/2026 hhmmss and hhmmssLocation: Whitton Avenue West / Malden Avenue, GreenfordDear Sir/Madam,I make representations against the above PCN(s) on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur (failure to comply with an indication on a sign / no contravention of the relevant Order).1) The evidence provided does not show the restriction being conveyedI have viewed the footage made available. It shows my vehicle completing a right turn, but it does not show any “No right turn” sign (or any road marking) from the driver’s approach at the point a driver must decide whether the manoeuvre is permitted.If you intend to rely on signage to prove the contravention, please provide:the full CCTV record for each PCN (not a shortened clip), andany still images taken from the CCTV that show the relevant sign(s) and their visibility from the approach used.On the evidence currently supplied, the authority has not demonstrated that the restriction was adequately conveyed to the motorist at the time of the alleged contravention.2) The junction signing is not positioned or presented to give clear notice at the decision pointFrom the approach along Whitton Avenue West, the final approach to the turn includes a 20 mph limit and a zebra crossing. Those features properly demand heightened attention to speed management and pedestrians. In that setting, the prohibition needs to be unmistakable at the point of commitment.My understanding of the layout is:prohibition signage appears before the zebra crossing and again between the crossing and the turn, andthere is no clear prohibition sign immediately at/adjacent to the junction mouth where the driver makes the final turning decision.If that is correct, the restriction is not being reinforced at the point where it matters most, particularly given the competing attention demands of the zebra crossing, bus stop and speed limit compliance.3) Sign clutter at the entry to Malden Avenue adds to ambiguityAt the entry to Malden Avenue there is a dense cluster of restriction signage (including a width limit warning and time-based restrictions with exemptions). This increases the risk that a motorist reasonably reads the entry cluster as “the relevant restrictions for this turning” rather than appreciating that the manoeuvre itself is prohibited.4) Discretion requested for the second PCNTwo PCNs have been issued for the same manoeuvre at the same location on the same day. Even if you do not accept the points above, it is not fair or proportionate to issue two penalties before the first PCN could have alerted the motorist and enabled a change of behaviour. I ask you to exercise discretion and cancel at least the second PCN on this basis.Evidence requestedTo properly consider this matter, please provide:the relevant Traffic Management Order extract creating the prohibited right turn at this junction, andthe authority’s current signage plan and/or site photographs showing the position of each “No right turn” sign and its visibility from the approach taken.For the reasons above, I request that the PCN(s) be cancelled.Yours faithfully,[Name][Address][Email / phone]

Hi, noobie here, I'm kicking myself. I live locally - I went from South Harrow to Greenford a couple of times in a day, we have a new car so I didn't go round the back roads and instead I went along Whitton Avenue West then turned right into Malden Avenue - twice in one day - and now I have received 2 PCNs.Coming up to the junction:

• there's a 20mph sign, with a no right turn sign,
• then there's zebra crossing,
• then there is a no right turn sign between the zebra crossing and the turning
• immediately before the turning, there is no visible no entry sign or no right turn sign
• and then, turning into Malden Ave there's a bus stop, and seven restriction signs.

[p]I have to say that I was concentrating on the zebra crossing and keeping my speed down to 20mph I could see the restriction signs .. what I didn't notice was the no right turn signs!![/p]My viewpoint was that, because I didn't see the signs twice in one day, even though they're visible, the signs are not prominent enough when you're having to drive at 20mph (which takes a lot of concentration on the speedo!) it's too easy to miss.here's the link to google maps, approaching the junctionHere's a link to google maps, immediately before the junction, where there isn't a no right turn signon google maps, as you actually get to the junction, a no right turn is not present.Does anyone else have any thoughts?

Hi, noobie here, I'm kicking myself. I live locally - I went from South Harrow to Greenford a couple of times in a day, we have a new car so I didn't go round the back roads and instead I went along Whitton Avenue West then turned right into Malden Avenue - twice in one day - and now I have received 2 PCNs.Coming up to the junction:

• there's a 20mph sign, with a no right turn sign,
• then there's zebra crossing,
• then there is a no right turn sign between the zebra crossing and the turning
• immediately before the turning, there is no visible no entry sign or no right turn sign
• and then, turning into Malden Ave there's a bus stop, and seven restriction signs.

[p]I have to say that I was concentrating on the zebra crossing and keeping my speed down to 20mph I could see the restriction signs .. what I didn't notice was the no right turn signs!![/p]My viewpoint was that, because I didn't see the signs twice in one day, even though they're visible, the signs are not prominent enough when you're having to drive at 20mph (which takes a lot of concentration on the speedo!) it's too easy to miss.here's the link to google maps, approaching the junctionHere's a link to google maps, immediately before the junction, where there isn't a no right turn signon google maps, as you actually get to the junction, a no right turn is not present.@Dave1UK - did you appeal?Does anyone else have any thoughts?