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Messages - user786

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1
The next stage is an NTO, not tribunal.

Why did you contact them again and what did you say? 

Is your logbook up to date?

The most you can pay is £70 if you lose at the tribunal.

i sent the following


Dear Miss Nurun Begum,

I am writing in response to your recent email regarding Penalty Charge Notice BM4454
I am dissatisfied with the response, as it appears to be a generic, template-based rejection and does not engage with the specific points I raised in my original representations. In particular:

I had not parked; I had momentarily stopped to check the signage safely on a busy road.

The timing of the alleged contravention was 09:14:45, just 15 seconds before the restriction ended at 09:15.

The Civil Enforcement Officer provided seven photographs, three of which were taken after 09:15, when parking was legally permitted. This raises questions as to whether the officer was aware of the correct restriction timings.

The CEO’s photograph of the sign is unclear and difficult to read, requiring digital zoom. In contrast, the photograph I submitted clearly shows that parking is permitted after 09:15, demonstrating that the council’s evidence is not reliable.

I also submitted two photographs taken while standing outside my vehicle to show that the signs cannot be easily read from a distance, particularly if a vehicle is not parked directly in front of them. This demonstrates that it is reasonable to allow a brief period for the driver to examine the signs, and that issuing a PCN seconds before the restriction ends, while the driver is checking, is premature and unfair.

The two restriction signs are not legible from the driver’s seat, requiring a momentary stop to confirm the restriction, which I carried out safely.

The council failed to properly exercise discretion, contrary to Birmingham City Council’s Civil Parking Enforcement Guidelines (including MC25).

The informal response does not address these substantive points and instead relies on generic statements about signage approval, zero-time contraventions, and the general responsibility of motorists.

I respectfully request that my representations be properly considered, taking into account the evidence and circumstances I have provided. If the council maintains that there are no grounds to cancel the PCN, I will have no alternative but to escalate this matter to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for independent adjudication.




yeh logbook is ok

2
yep i agree , i assumed i was allowed to check the sign , But the council disagree and are  Saying 02 contraventions allow 0 seconds grace .  and no grounds to drop the ticket .


they have sent a second letter also which i attach

https://postimg.cc/gallery/WtN2c1D


Lets see how fair the tribunal people are , worse case im extra £35 quid out of pocket .



3
So did you check the time on car clock or watch/phone when you parked before also checking sign?

Or did you go to sign and check time then? And with what?
on my phone was 9.15 . so didnt expect a problem and carried on . when got back and saw ticket was confused , when i checked the council evidence later that day , saw the officer had taken the 1st pic 15 seconds prior to restriction ending , half the pictures were taken after 9.15 when i was legal . its the extreme short time that annoyed me, and i found unfair .

4
would have been just before 9.15 , walked to sign , saw it said 9.15 so crossed over to shop

5
which grounds does will i need to appeal to traffic tribunal  ?

is it  ground 6 there has been a procedural impropriety?
(Failure to follow policy: The enforcement authority did not adhere to its own published policies or the Secretary of State's statutory guidance)

6
The reason we ask for copies of documents, rather than transcriptions, is that errors and omissions can creep into the transcription.

You have omitted a most important fact - the date of the rejection of your challenge. You have also omitted the PCN number and Reg.Mark. Please post a copy of all sides of the rejection letter.

That said, in the extract from the letter you have posted, there is no sign of their considering  of you leading and important challenge, the principle of de minimis.

That failure to consider and the principle of de minimis should win at Adjudication should it get that far, so your next step is to wait for the NtO.
If B'ham have the facility online, keep an eye on the status history of the PCN for the issue of the NtO, and post it here when it arrives.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/vxW3LZW

thats the redacted letter , i have removed the PCN /REG as people can access my account using them 2 details .

7
on the pavement  ,  it was 9.15 on the sign so thought they would stop ticketing .

9
refused  looks like standard copy and paste reply !
Started taking about disabled badges when i didnt mention anything about that ?!

Thank you for your enquiry concerning the Penalty Charge Notice detailed above.
I have given careful consideration to the circumstances you have described but regret
that there are no grounds for the notice to be withdrawn.
The Charge was correctly issued. Your vehicle was parked in contravention of a
loading ban in force between 7.45am-09.15am. This restriction was clearly signed
(Civil Enforcement Officer’s photographs can be viewed on our website:
www.birmingham.gov.uk/PCN). Your reasons are, therefore, not accepted as grounds
for cancellation of the Charge.
For this type of contravention, there is no minimum observation time required of Civil
Enforcement Officers before issuing a Penalty Charge Notice. Thus, they issue Notices
instantly.
I have noted all your comments concerning the signage in this area, I must advise you
that these signs have been approved by the Department of Transport and are referred
to in the Highway Code, with which motorists should be familiar.
I must advise you that parking is not permitted for Disabled Badge holders when a ban
on loading or unloading is in force. This is outlined in the Blue Badge Scheme Booklet,
provided to all badge holders.
I have noted all your comments and whilst I appreciate the circumstances that resulted
you parking at this location. I must advise you that it is the responsibility of the motorist
to ensure that all parking restrictions are observed and signage is checked prior to
parking the vehicle, ensuring that the vehicle is parked in a place not causing a
contravention. In this instance it would have been advisable to have arranged parking
where a contravention would not have occurred.
I regret, therefore, that I am unable to withdraw the notice and must request payment
be forwarded in settlement of the matter.

10
https://ibb.co/60jxssmj
https://imgpile.com/p/eQdKojI
is this okay to challenge ....thanks


I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

At this location, parking and loading restrictions apply from 07:45 to 09:15, after which parking is permitted. There are two separate signs governing the restriction, and from my driving position neither sign is legible. Alum rock road is extremely  busy, and it would have been unsafe to stop in the carriageway in order to read the signage.

For this reason, I stopped only momentarily and safely to read and understand the restrictions. I have attached photographs showing that the signs cannot reasonably be read from where I momentarily stopped.

The alleged contravention time is recorded as 09:14:45, which is 15 seconds before the restriction ended. Of the six photographs relied upon by the Civil Enforcement Officer, three are taken after 09:15, including the photograph of the sign itself, when parking was permitted. Evidence taken after the restriction had ended cannot establish that a contravention occurred at the time alleged.

Although I understand that Code 02 is a zero-time contravention, a PCN may only be issued once a contravention has actually occurred. Issuing a PCN while a driver is reasonably checking multiple, unreadable signs on a busy road, and relying on post-restriction evidence, is premature and procedurally improper.
In addition, Birmingham City Council’s own Civil Parking Enforcement Guidelines state:
“What is important about these guidelines is that they represent a foundation upon which fairness and discretion can be applied. The importance of flexibility in these matters has been recognised by the courts and, as a consequence, decisions made by councils must not be fettered by being unduly formulaic.”

In this case, no such discretion or flexibility appears to have been applied. The PCN was issued 15 seconds before the restriction ended, while I was momentarily and safely checking multiple,  signs on a busy road, and the authority now relies in part on post-restriction photographs to support a pre-restriction allegation.

A refusal to cancel the PCN in these circumstances would indicate a fettered and formulaic approach, contrary to the council’s own published guidance and the principles of fairness recognised by the courts.
Further, Birmingham City Council’s Civil Parking Enforcement Guidelines (MC25) state that although motorists may assume a period of grace, “it is expected that Civil Enforcement Officers will exercise discretion before issuing a Penalty Charge Notice in some cases, where there are compelling reasons or other specific mitigating circumstances requiring the case to be assessed on its individual merits.”

This case clearly involves such compelling and mitigating circumstances. I stopped only momentarily on a busy road to read multiple signs that are not legible from the driving position, in order to confirm that the restriction ended at 09:15. The PCN was issued at 09:14:45, just seconds before the restriction ended, and the authority relies in part on post-09:15 photographs to support the allegation.

In these circumstances, issuing a PCN without exercising discretion demonstrates a formulaic approach, contrary to the council’s own guidance, which requires flexibility, fairness, and individual assessment.

I therefore respectfully request that discretion be properly applied and that this PCN be cancelled.

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