Free Traffic Legal Advice

Thank you  for your reply cp8759, we'll go for a video hearing!

What do you think our chances are of success?

Neither my wife or I have any experience with any hearings of any kind, so if one of you could assist that would be much appreciated.

Alternatively if you think in this case it'd be better for us to represent ourselves, we're also happy to do that.

Thanks
Vin

Submitted!

Following on from cp8759's letter, I'll read up on

- 'The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2007 as amended by The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Amendment Order No. 14) 2017 and The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Notice of Variation (No.1) 2023.'

and

- regulation 3(1)(c) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.


On those points what is the likelihood of the adjudicator questioning us on these legalistic points and what would be a good response?

Will keep you updated on the correspondence.

St Christopher pray for us!

Hi All,

The images in my last post don't seem to be showing but the links do take you to the correct pages.

I have a question about the appeal. In the council's response to our representation they refer to me as the 'third party' as the vehicle belongs to my wife.

On the traffic penalty tribunal website should I appeal on my Wife's behalf or should I write the appeal and get my wife to rewrite the below from her perspective?


Draft Appeal:



Dear Sir/Madam,

On the 2nd of October my wife, the registered owner and I parked the car, registration BN66YSG at Mayflower Street East Car Park in Plymouth. The parking payment system had changed since my last visit to the carpark and I paid £3-80 for 3 hours parking. I paid for parking with my debit card and when the machine asked if I wanted a receipt I selected 'yes' but the machine did not give me a receipt.

Upon returning to the car I noticed a penalty charge notice on the windscreen. As the traffic warden was still walking around the car park, I approached him to question why I had been given a ticket as I had paid for parking. During our conversation it became clear I had entered the wrong registration. I had entered my own car's, FN55JUC and not my wife's. I explained this to the traffic warden, who was unwilling to revoke the ticket.

The PCN states the following:
Contravention Code: 834
834-Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid virtual pay & display ticket or voucher or parking clock.

By not receiving a receipt from the machine I believe I was put at a serious disadvantage. Firstly, I had been denied the opportunity to check that the vehicle registration was correct on a receipt which should've been issued. Secondly, I was unable to prove to the traffic warden that I had paid for parking by displaying a receipt on the car's dashboard.

In the informal representation I made to the council I mentioned the above along with a screenshot of my bank statement showing a transaction of £3-80. In their response, Plymouth City Council acknowledged that I had paid for parking using the registration FN55JUC but were unwilling to cancel the PCN.

After seeking advice, I decided to challenge liability for PCN PL10903622 on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Firstly Plymouth City Council allege that parking may be paid for via a cashless system, but upon consulting The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2007 as amended by The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Amendment Order No. 14) 2017 and The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Notice of Variation (No.1) 2023, the order does not provide any cashless payment option at all.

Furthermore, the contravention alleged on the PCN is "Parked without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required", but it is not physically possible to display a virtual permit. Even if a valid virtual permit is in force, this will not be displayed. The allegation stated on the PCN is essentially meaningless.

I further alleged a procedural impropriety because the penalty charge notices does not convey the requirements of regulation 3(1)(c) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.

Plymouth city council considered the above representations but decided not to cancel the PCN and I have now been given the opportunity to appeal to you the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

In addition to the above, by not making sure that their machine was sufficiently stocked with paper, Plymouth City Council have decided to punish us for something which was impossible at the time.

The contravention states:
Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid virtual pay & display ticket or voucher or parking clock.
By not being given a receipt I was unable to display a physical ticket on the dashboard nor were we able to check that the virtual pay and display was correct. The car park also provides no facility to check virtual pay and display tickets after payment.

After the incident I was able to provide a virtual bank statement proving payment, but Plymouth City Council were still unwilling to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully,

Mr xxxxx xxxxxxxx



Any feedback/ improvements would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!
Vin

Hi All,

I hope you are all well.

Unfortunately we received a Notice Of Rejection Of Representations through the post today

It's been addressed to my wife and I am referred to as 'a third party'.

I have been given the opportunity to appeal to the traffic Penalty tribunal.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nCcY16KwVkqterDL7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/owcMLVGGVpjzxPk37

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i82hhCG45oeq4wab7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cr269DCWdm8Y6e4h7


Thank you in advance
Vin

Hi cp8759,

Thank you for your reply.

I have submitted the appeal. The text box which they gave for entering the appeal had a max number of characters of 1000, so I attached the letter as a pdf.

I have taken a screenshot of the appeal complete screen. It said they have 56 days to respond.

Thank you for your help

I'll let you know the outcome!

Vin

Thank you Incandescent !

Hello cp8759,

Thank you for looking into this for me and your time for finding and posting the images.

Sorry for my delayed reply, it slipped my mind!
I tried to do an upload on imgur for the back of the ticket but I am having difficulty. Google link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8suC6tjYxHSnWQEY8

Looking at the last correspondence, I have 14 days from the date of the letter being served with the note taken to be served after the second working day of the letter. I interpret this that the deadline to pay the discounted rate is the 23rd of October. Is this right?(Two working days after Thursday 5th October is Friday 9th of October. +14 days = 23rd).

What is the process for the next stage of appeal? If I appeal will I lose my £25 discount rate?
Do you think I have a case?
I noticed that on the photos you posted the traffic officer did take a phot of the dashboard where a receipt would have been placed if I had one, if the number plate on the receipt had been different but displayed, would Instill have been given a parking ticket?

Thank you
Vin