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Messages - pdc83uk

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Good Morning,

I wondered if anyone would be so kind as to give my draft below a quick once over.

@Hippocrates, I didn't quite follow the information at the link provided - am I also able to challenge on the grounds that the PCN is omitting mandatory information? If so should I add something to this effect to the below?

"I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice: <insert PCN number>

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur but even if it did, it must be de-minimis.
 
According to the clock in my car I passed the signs at 09:15, after the restriction had ended.
 
The signage was not accompanied by a clock demonstrating the time upon which the London Borough of Lewisham relies. In the absence of such, I was obliged to rely solely upon the time shown on my car’s clock meaning that some variation must be accepted between my vehicle’s clock and the clock on the enforcement authority’s camera.

But even according to your video I passed the signs with only 33 seconds remaining of the restricted period. The minimal and arguable timing is so close as to be considered immaterial. I would add that imposing such an unduly harsh penalty (a minimum of £80 with discount) is disproportionate for such a trivial transgression. The alleged contravention can only be considered a minimal infraction and the principle of de-minimis applies.

In light of the above the penalty charge should be cancelled."




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Thank you to everyone who has replied and @Pastmybest for finding that very useful case.

Is it worth me referring to any case history in my representation or is this only really considered at appeal?

I get the impression from the responses I could write the most entirely convincing argument at this stage, but the council will still likely reject it just to call my bluff and see if I simply cough up the £80 to bring an end to the matter.

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Thank you for the prompt response, it is much appreciated.

I saw the sign on entering the road, which was what prompted me to check my clock.

My initial wondering when pointing out the signage was whether it was fit for purpose and adequate for enforcing restrictions. Whilst I was fortunate enough to spot the relevant sign in this instance, it would not necessarily have been difficult for a driver to have missed it due to the ordering, positioning and volume of signs on entering this junction. Appreciate this argument would be considered subjective and for my case perhaps the only thing that matters is whether or not I saw the relevant sign.

I will certainly argue on the basis of De minimis. I just wondered if there was anything else that could add any additional weight.

Many thanks

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Good Afternoon,

PCN: https://imgpile.com/p/UuVI4H0

Map: https://maps.apple/la/XU7roZcjGjgSNV 

From the PCN received, the alleged contravention occurred at 9:14:26, the restriction ends at 9:15. I checked the clock in my car as I entered the road and the time was showing as 9:15. Obviously this is the only clock I would have access to in that moment as opposed to whatever clock Lewisham council are using, so I was reliably informed by this. Given that we are talking 34 seconds prior to the restriction ending, would this count as De Minimis?

One other point, which may have no bearing at all, is the visibility and volume of signage as shown in the map. Can any argument be made that on the left hand side of the road (where I entered from), the signage relating to the 'School Street' restriction is partially obscured by the 7.5t sign directly in front of it? There is a sign regarding the pedestrian zone on the other side of the road (one of four road signs on that side all on top of one another), but in total there are seven road traffic signs that a driver would have to take into account when entering that junction. Is there any basis of argument under either visibility and / or confusion due to the sheer volume of signs a driver is expected to have read?

Any advice gratefully received. Thank you.

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